Episode 11: "Different People Shower Differently"

''If the Queerwolves have ever made reference to a previous conversation you didn’t quite understand, prepare for all to be revealed…   For Thanksgiving, we’re opening up the vault and releasing our Lost Episode, the pilot we recorded before we started making the show in earnest! In this episode we sat down to talk the 1981 Boston lamplight slasher NIGHT SCHOOL. Things are a LITTLE different here. You’ll get to hear the invention of the Pride Float segment before it became a regular occurrence, prepare for lots of references to stuff that happened in early July, and Producer Brennan isn’t brave enough to poke his head in more than a couple times. But it’s still the same naughty, gaudy show you know and love! Plus, in Tea Time we sip on HEREDITARY, TOP OF THE LAKE, and WHITNEY. ''

Trivia
The first of the "vault" episodes. "Here in your parents' basement to eat chips, make out and dig through your old box of VHS tapes and see just how queer some of your favorite scary movies are. But don't be nervous, we've done this before." Tea Time doesn't have a name yet. Nay sings a little bit. Producer Brennan makes his first-ever appearance being introduced by Michael thanks to an article Brennan wrote about Night School. Brennan is the self-described "ghost in the corner". He loves Night School and actually has the poster hanging above his bed. Mark has some fun facts about the movie like Alfred Sole (Alice Sweet Alice) was originally going to direct but was replaced by Ken Hughes. Shady Summaries are known as "Nervous Breakdowns" for the first time here. Spoilers for a thirty-seven year old movie. Mark attempts to introduce "Sissy Panic" as a grading scale but that is quickly supplanted by Michael's question of whether the movie gets a Pride float.

Spoilers for Hereditary

Topics brought up during the episode: Lorimar Productions, Full House, Cruising, ABC TGIF lineup, behind the scenes drama that led to Just the Ten of Us being cancelled for an all-Lorimar lineup on TGIF,  China Girl, Big Little Lies, the Conjuring universe, Vera Farmiga, DP for Night School Mark Irwin, Brad Fiedel did the score, Dario Argento, Mario Bava, Ruth Avergon (writer of Night School), Beacon Hill in Boston, Video nasties, leonard mann, karen McDonald (the waitress), American Repertory Theatre school,

Tea Time
Nay: Hereditary, Ouija: Origin of Evil

Nay: I love a storyline about crazy families passing on, you know, crazy genetics, because that happened to me. I'm like, "Ooh, this is scary for a few reasons."

Michael: Top of the Lake season 1, reruns of ''[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_(TV_series)#:~:text=Ellen%20is%20an%20American%20television%20sitcom%20that%20aired,DeGeneres%2C%20a%20neurotic%20bookstore%20owner%20in%20her%20thirties. Ellen] (the sitcom), Ouija: Origin of Evil''

Mark: Whitney (documentary)

Shady Summaries
Michael: Essentially there is a killer at this night school that for some reason only has one classroom in Boston and it takes place in someone's apartment building it seems like to me and a killer is decapitating women in Boston and I mean, that's it. While a young student is sleeping with her professor; I don't even know what class that is. What night school has an anthropology class?

Nay: It's possible

Michael: I guess?

Mark: Lots of people want to study anthropology at night

Mark: Come major in misogyny in Night School, a movie that asks the question, 'Could Boston be any worse?' The answer is, 'Yes,' thanks to lecherous professors, decapitation, dimwit police and one truly amazing wig

Pride Float
Mark: On the richter scale of LGBTQ+ worthiness, is this movie more John Wayne or is it all the way to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_J._Bullock Jim. J. Bullock]?

Nay: Wow

Mark: Where does Night School fall on that? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that despite having a lesbian character, it does not feel like Night School really belongs in--

Michael: Yeah, it's not gonna have a Pride float anytime soon. Is that what you're saying?

Mark: Pretty much. That's actually succinctly like sort of, Nay?

Nay: Does it get one or not, yeah. It wouldn't get one

Michael: It wouldn't get one. How about this, though: Does it get one in 1981?

Nay: Oh. Well, probably

Michael: Probably, right?

Mark: Maybe?

Michael: I dunno

Nay: What would the float have looked like?

Michael: Oh my God. It probably would have been a big knife with heads everywhere?

Nay: A merry-go-round?

Michael: Oooh, I love that

Mark: In 1981--

Michael: Let's make a Night School float for next year's Pride parade

Mark: It's just, it's just a huge wig

Michael: I mean, it's--

Nay: It's a big aquarium with heads floating. A big toilet with a head in it.

Michael: You guys, we have this. A toilet on top of a merry-go-round with an aquarium. The merry-go-round's in the aquarium, and the head is in the toilet

Nay: Oh, duh. Yes.

Mark: And then music blasting is just (deep voice warbling like the score from Night School).

Nay: Flopping

Michael: And just hot, sexy anthropology teachers everywhere

Mark: Beautiful

Nay: Are there those?

Mark: I love it

Michael: There's gotta be. I'm sure someone, I'm sure Buzzfeed has a 'Top Ten Anthropology Hotties in the US' somewhere

Quotes
Mark: Nay you were probably like, ten, when (Ellen) came out, right, probably?

Nay: I was watching, though, I was a young dyke

Michael: it's really interesting to watch Ellen navigate "I like this guy." I remember watching it as a thirteen year old and being like, "Oh my God, she's so funny! I hope she gets the man," and now I'm like, how did no one know she was a giant lesbian?

Mark: Well… it's yeah. I mean, the cognitive dissonance of her early career

Michael: Bless her

Mark: I remember reading some kind of article recently that essentially, like, a lot of research had been done into this and the tide of how the general public in America felt towards LGBTQ people had so much to do with Ellen. The fact that she took that step, that Ellen 's such a massive platform and that she was so likable and people had been having her in their homes for so long...

Michael: Yeah, she was palatable to like, the general audience

Mark: Yeah, and so it's really I dunno

Michael: But watching the first season is super interesting 'cause you realize it was Friends before Friends but they don't get the credit Friends gets. It's literally five friends hanging out at a coffee house, like, all the time

Mark: And Friends had a bit of a gay...

Michael: Sissy panic issue?

Mark: Mmm-hmm. So, interesting.

Michael: That's another episode

Nay: To be honest, remember how I didn't realize that I actually went to night school in Boston with all women until we were talking about this movie like the third time

Michael: Where did you think you were at the time?

Mark: That was the thing, that was the thing

Nay: Well, I went to grad school at Suffolk University

Michael: I was in a restaurant, nothing but men

Nay: Absolutely not. I went to grad school at Suffolk University in Boston and I got a master's in women's health and everyone in my cohort was women and all of the classes were designed so that folks could work. So they all started after 5pm, so...

Michael: Were the classes designed specifically for women? Or was that just the demographic that it ended up being?

Nay: Oh, no. Unfortunately at the time, it looked like only women were interested in women's health, which is unfortunate and silly, because actually women (inaudible) the health of the world

Mark: (sarcastically) Thank God things have changed so much

Michael: (sarcastically) We've really turned that corner

Nay: But that's how it ended up, and so, as someone who went to night school in Boston with all women, the movie actually was just a collection of sounds to me. I actually thought that was the scariest part of the movie.

Michael: Yeah, there's some good sound design in the movie for sure

Mark: Well the whole thing has a made-for-TV, sorry, go ahead

Nay: Oh no, I was ready to hear what you had to say

Mark: Okay. It just feels like a made-for-TV giallo

Michael: That's a good way to look at it

Nay: That's true

Mark: Like it has stylistic overlaps with Tenebrae, which, first of all, can someone tell me if that's the correct pronunciation, "ten-nah-bray", "ten-nah-bri"?

Nay: I don't even know what that word is, so

Michael: I don't know

Nay: What is that?

Mark: it's an Argento movie that sort of came out right after this one-ish, and sometimes Night School got flack for like, ripping it off, but it turns out that it was shot before, um, who cares, anyway. Because I mean, for whatever Night School has to offer is like, really doesn't hold a candle to Tenabrae, but it's like, you know, all the giallo trappings of vaguely early '80s handsome men in corduroy jackets taking forever to track down whoever's killing models. The guy playing the cop, he looks the part but he's so bad at it, oh my god. He's really bad

Michael: He's eighties hot, though

Mark: No, he had that Sears catalog look

Michael: Yeah, like, oh, "Here he is modeling a nice tank," you know?

Nay: I never think cops are hot, but I hear you. I know what you mean

Michael: Like an Eighties detective

Mark: No, we weren't spanking it to the cops in this movie. But you know when you're watching the movie that he was cast because...

Michael: He had the good look and he had  the look they wanted more than anything

Mark: With the idea that someone in the audience was gonna be like, "Ooh, that detective," you know? And then you watch it today and you're like, "He looks like Mr. Bergstrom from The Simpsons episode, kind of." He looked a little bit like Mr. Bergstrom

Michael: Well, the thing I always find interesting about these movies is looking them up after, you're like, "Every one of these actors was younger than me when they made this movie, and they all look four hundred." I was like, "Oh, he's like a sexy fifty-five year old cop," and he was like thirty-two when he shot it and I don't know if that's just because I was one when it was made, or if it because being in L.A.,  people in their forties look a lot more youthful than the average human

Nay: Do they?

Mark: Well, I always chalk that up to like, cigarettes and diet

Michael: True. They're eating steak, donuts and cigarettes. That's their diet. And beer's their, you know.

Mark: And so they were just aging faster?

Michael: Yeah

Nay: maybe, if we wanted to make assumptions on people's health based on what they eat or do, but

Michael: True

Mark: In terms of the aging, though, at that time

Nay: It's just like the style, I dunno

Michael: It's the clothing?

Nay: The lighting?

Michael: Well yeah, everything has a Barbara Walters filter to it

Nay: They didn't have a Lumee

Mark: Yeah there's definitely like a [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/vaseline-camera-trick-effect_n_7062900#:~:text=Cinematographers%20used%20Vaseline%20to%20achieve%20a%20soft%2C%20dreamy,give%20a%20halation%20or%20glowing%20effect%2C%22%20he%20said. Vaseline on the lens]; that is an amazing film case

Nay: Thank you

Michael: The Barbara Walters like...

Mark: For friends at home, Nay has like, a fancy like, vanity mirror

Nay: i think that was the problem. they didn't have the lighting. They needed the lighting, they needed a Lumee case

Mark: (on the summer heat) It's a little bit kill yourself gross

Mark: The benefit of doing a podcast like this is we can just do it naked, which, you know, is a lot more comfortable

Nay: Oh, hold on, let me take my shirt off

Michael: Am I wearing clothes?

Nay: No

Michael: Oh, okay

Nay: Do you ever?

Mark: (Night School) is a semi-crime against horror cinema, but mostly not, because, I don't know. I don't know about you guys, but I have a lot of feelings about the movie.

Michael: Same

Nay: Yeah. Definitely

Michael: There's some positives, there's some negatives, there's some "haaaay"s, there's some "ugh", so, you know?

Michael: Right now with the world the way is, I want a lot of escapism. Gimme something light and fluffy and furry and huggy, that's what I'm preferring to watch these days

Mark: I can't imagine why

Michael: I think it was my friend Mia who was like, "Can we stop acting like Nicole Kidman hasn't been around doing amazing things for four hundred years?" And it's so true. Everything she's in is good

Mark: Can we change the name of this podcast? Just to that

Michael: To "The Nicole Kidman Hour"?

Mark: No, to that sentence. "Can we stop pretending that Nicole Kidman dot dot dot"

Nay: See y'all later, it's been fun

Mark: Nay, are you not a fan?

Nay: Oh, I didn't say that. I was just like...

Michael: I was about to be like, "Can you leave?"

Mark: You're not that much of a stan to be able to like...

Nay: Yeah, you know, you definitely need to be a stan to talk for an hour

Mark: It's true

Mark: I don't know what it is, but studios making horror movies were like, terrified of doing period anything for awhile. They were like, 'the audience is just too stupid to understand what like, a rotary telephone is

Michael: "They're not gonna know what that car is!"

Mark: Yeah, "They're never gonna understand." And now it's just like they don't care, they'll just set it any time

Nay: I want them to do horror movies about actual periods.

Michael: Girl, have you ever seen Teeth?

Nay: I don't think so

Michael: It's period-adjacent

Nay: Ooh, really

Mark: I think she means time periods, Michael

Michael: No, like menstruation you're talking about

Nay: i meant menstrual period

Mark: Oh, literal menses. Oh, for sure!

Michael: Flowing blood

Nay: I want for those people who have a menstrual cycle, whether they're men or women, to take someone through those cramps.

Michael: What would you call it?

Nay: I dunno

Mark: Well Cramps is already a pretty good...

Michael: Attack of the Flow?

Nay: Destruction of Me, okay, I feel like that's what I would call it, because...

Michael: Get It Out of Me, is that a good one?

Nay: Yeah, like Shed This Lining!

Michael: Fuck You, that's another good one

Nay: Yeah, Shed This Lining!, the fuck outta me

Michael: And then ''Shed This Lining! II: Shed It Again''

Nay: For some folks, the cycle works like that. But you know, some people are like, "Oh. That's gonna happen again?" Like, you know, I've heard of when young people get their period and then they're like, talking to their parent and their parent is like, "Okay, well when this happens again…" and (the kid) is like, "WHAT?!"

Michael: "It's a beautiful cycle of life." "Fuck you, Dad."

Nay: So yeah, the sequel

Mark: That must be kind of a real moment when you're like, "You mean again? What do you mean again? What do you mean every month?" Like, "Ughhh".

Michael: Every twenty-eight days, give or take?

Nay: Yeah, if your cycle is poppin' like that. Mine is more like every 35 days

Michael: That's good

Mark: It keeps you on your toes

Nay: Mmm-hmm. On my toes and on my tampons

Mark: There's not enough of menstrual cycle related horror in general, though. I mean, we had Carrie

Michael: Carrie. I mean, what else is there?

Nay: I mean, people trying to make it into a horror when it's not, i feel like that's actually what happens

Michael: I just had another title in my head that I felt revolved around that and now I can't think of it

Mark: You know what, it'll come back to us

Michael: Maybe Mr. Belvedere? Was that it?

Mark: It's definitely Mr. Belvedere

Michael: What movie are we talking about? Night School? Not Kevin Hart Night School?

Cop in the trailer: We've had a few kooks in Boston in our time...

Michael: (sassily) Mmm-hmm!

(The score in the trailer turns to a warbling throbbing sound)

Michael: Ooh, ultrasound

Mark: It really does kind of sound like it

Nay: Yeah

Mark: What does ultrasound taste like(?)

Nay: Can you see my ovarian cysts right now?

Mark: Can you tell us why you love Chitty Chitty Bang Bang so much?

Nay: Well, I, at this point it's...

Michael: Because they say both words twice?

Nay: I was into that. I think at this point it's super-nostalgic. But I can remember literally watching that VHS over and over again as a kid, with a blanket over a card table to make a fort. I would sit under the table and watch Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. I liked musicals a lot, so I think I liked that part of it. Um, you know, because if I watched it now for the first time I couldn't tell you that I liked it or tell you why, so I don't know...

Michael: Isn't it interesting when you watch something as a kid and it becomes a big part of you and like a favorite of yours? I always find that interesting with horror. Like there's people that, will like, to me, will like the worst part of a franchise. But a lot of the time you find out it's the first one they saw

Mark: Yeah, there's a lot of sentimental value to it. Now, was Chitty Chitty Bang Bang about a flying car?

Nay: Yes

Mark: Okay, because I was like, "It's about a bed that flies," and I was like, "No, wait. That's Bedknobs and Broomsticks?" There was a lot of flying objects

Nay: I also was obsessed with Dick Van Dyke as a child, which is real cute now

Mark: I get it

Nay: I mean, I would love to have that last name

Mark: I mean, yeah

Nay: Iconic

Michael: I'd like to have that first name

Nay: Nice

Michael: Yeah.

Nay: Well it's for everybody

Michael: It fits this queer space very well. I kind of wish it was like Dick Poly Dyke. That would be a lot better

Nay: Or Dicks On Dykes?

Michael: Anyway. Feel free to cut…

Brennan: I just wanted to chime in, the surname "Van" technically means "from" in a lot of languages, so

Michael: Oh, so Dick From Dyke

Brennan: If that helps

Mark: I thought "von" was… is it "van" or "von"? Or is "van" an English?

Brennan: It's Dutch, I think, so there's different permutations. Doesn't matter. But Dick From Dyke, that could help with jokes, y'know?

Michael: Yeah, Dyke From Dick

Mark: Dick From Dyke

Mark: This podcast is rated PG-13. No, i don't even, I don't think we're rated...

Michael: It's rated something

Nay: (sultry voice) X

Mark: We're rated X already. NC-17

Michael: It's rated, "Hey girl"

Michael: Ladies first

Nay: Well, good thing that's not me. There's no one ladylike over here, honey

Mark: Boston looked abandoned in this movie

Michael: It looked very colonial to me

Nay: It does look colonial, and I think a lot of times after 8pm it does look empty

Michael: I remember walking around Marlborough at night and it's pretty dead, so it's true. Point: Night School. You win this one, Night School

Michael: (tough guy voice) "I'm gonna get you, Night School'"

Mark: I love that the IMDb synopsis of this movie is, and I quote, "(copy from IMDb)" and that's it. That's the synopsis

Michael: That's great

Nay: I mean, that sounds so realistic for, you know, two thousand, there are certain groups of people being killed off and literally all it said was, like, "Group of people being beheaded. Police are baffled. The end."

Michael: Can you imagine using that as your pitch to the studio? "People are dying and police are baffled."

Mark: And that's it

Michael: $1.2 million please?

Mark: That's absolutely correct.

Michael: The characters in this movie are, there's no other word for it, interesting. Like, you have Rachel Ward playing this young student Eleanor, who, we never really get a sense of why she's going to night school

Michael: Detective Judd Austin.

Mark: I buy it.

Nay: Mmm-hmm

Michael: It sounds like the writer just cobbled together two ex-boyfriends' names

Mark: Why are you assuming that Ruth is straight?

Michael: I don't know

Nay: Judd and Austin could've been girlfriends

Michael: Judd and Austin could've been last names

Mark: Check your bias

Michael: The characters in this movie are, I mean there's no other word for it, interesting? Like, you have Rachel Ward playing this young student, named Eleanor. Who we never really get a sense of why she's going to night school, 'cause she seems to spend most of her day working for one of her professors. So I'm not sure what's preventing her from… I dunno.

Mark: Yeah, do these people know you can go to school during the day?

Michael: The thing that's never elaborated on is why they're all in night school

Mark: No, it's not. I wish that they had sort of elaborated on like, "We're putting ourselves through school and we're working and that's why we're in night school," as opposed to, "Well, here we are in night school."

Michael: I guess day school isn't as scary?

Mark: But everything is at night in this movie. It opens on a daycare and it's midnight.

Nay: It's night. It's dark outside

Mark: It's straight up midnight and there's one kid left on this merry-go-round and the kid's like, "Where's my mom and dad?" Like, "Where are my parents?"

Michael: "I was supposed to be in bed like five hours ago. Where are my parents?"

Nay: If you look at who attends this night school, if I were gonna make a generalization, to me, it doesn't even look like who would be at night school.

Michael: Right. It looks like a bunch of models. Rachel Ward is a very attractive woman, and yeah, all of her peers kind of looked like her. There was no single mothers, there was no other demographic served except young pretty women in their twenties. White women as well.

Mark: It's a horror movie in 1981...

Nay: A horror movie for real.

Mark: It’s a horror movie in 1981, so the women exist either to like, disrobe, or be murdered

Michael: Right. Or serve food because there’s always a waitress

Mark: It’s sort of like, that’s pretty much why they’re there, unfortunately

Mark: Remember when we first talked about this, we said they were all students at #MeToo University? Because literally there’s not a single member of the staff of that school...

Michael: Every student is assaulted in one form or another

Mark: Lecherous

Nay: Yeah. It’s the worst

Mark: Microaggressions non-stop

Michael: The #MeToo University Lechers

Mark: Non-stop

Mark: One of my favorite things about the movie though is that everyone seems incredibly annoyed at having to deal with this whole decapitated girl business.

Nay: I mean, that is annoying

Mark: Like, these police officers are showing up going like, "Hi, so now there’s like three students that have turned up headless." People are like, "Ugh! Fine! God! I guess I’ll just cancel my appointment ‘til this is over."

Michael: Right. Everybody acts like they’re being questioned like the people that are being questioned on SVU. Have you guys ever watched Law & Order: SVU? Every single time they question a character, it’s like, (gruff belligerent voice) "I don’t wanna talk about this, I have ballet class." (normal voice) And it’s like, Detective Benson, God bless Olivia Benson, she’s just like, "I kinda just wanna know if you heard the person being murdered in the apartment next door to you?" And they’re like, "I don’t have time for this!" That’s kind of how every character reacted in this movie.

Mark: "I am a very, very important and busy person."

Michael: Annoyed. I’m annoyed

Nay: It is annoying. I was like, "I don’t want to talk to cops. Bye." But also, if you’re on your way to ballet, that’s different

Michael: I mean, ballet class is important, you have to be there on time.

Nay: I mean it sounds accurate that there would be a room of white people talking about tribal things happening somewhere else

Michael: Yes. And of course the expert on it is a thirty-five year old straight white man

Nay: As they are.

Michael: With a corduroy suit

Mark: I think my ironically favorite thing about Night School is that in some fucked up way, it is about Rachel Ward completely culturally appropriates this whole headhunter thing and I was like, "Wow, white people really do ruin everything."

Nay: Cultural appropriation brings death. That's no joke.

Michael: Yeah. She's culturally appropriating decapitation

Mark: She was literally like, "Oh! I'm gonna take this and use it as a systematic ritualistic way of um, shedding my boyfriend's exes."

Michael: (The waitress's) wig is my favorite character in the entire movie

Mark: It's the most sympathetic

Michael: It is! It hit every mark. It looked great in lighting. Didn't talk back to the director from what I heard.

Mark: Knew all its lines

Michael: Yeah. It was a pro

(Mark talks about attempting to get in touch with Karen MacDonald, who taught him at the Art of Repertory Theatre school)

Michael: Maybe she'll put you in touch with the wig

Mark: Can you imagine? "Can you talk about your wig?"

Michael: "Does your wig have an email address?"

Michael: (Karen MacDonald as the waitress) kind of provides, I dunno. When I watch the movie I think that woman's thinking the exact same thing. "What the hell are these bitches up to? Girl, you guys are being beheaded? Maybe don't walk home alone at night."

Mark: The world of this movie we're in, people are just behaving; literal actual decapitations are happening and everyone's just like, "I'm late for class!" Like no, maybe stay home

Michael: And for those who need clarification, they're all women. Every single victim is a woman in this movie

Mark: That's true. Only one man dies

Michael: Is that true? I can't remember

Mark: Well, it's the professor, but it's to save his...

Michael: He sacrifices himself

Mark:  His deranged betrothed and his baby. That's really quite a-- I mean, you know, for a guy who spent the whole movie afraid of commitment

Michael: He committed to death

Mark: He really, I mean, that's like...

Michael: It's true

Mark: That's love

Michael: (fey voice) Is it?

Nay: Not like that

Mark: I dunno. I'm kidding. That's not love, that's something else.

Nay: That's a movie. That's what that is.

Michael: Thank God Nay's here to tell us we're stupid

Mark: I know. Literally. Nay is periodically interjecting to be like, "You're idiots."

Mark: Can we talk about the shower body painting scene?

Nay: Oh God, yes we can

Mark: Was that a pomegranate?

Nay: I don't know what that was. I don't know what it was. And I just kept being so annoyed thinking about, well, one, I was like, "Different people shower differently." I'm trying to be accepting and like, you know...

Michael: No shower shaming here

Nay: No shower shaming. If you get your hair wet in the shower every time, that's your lifestyle, you know what I'm saying? But the most horrific part of that was, I was like, he's rubbing, whatever that is, you're putting it on the skin and the hair. I just couldn't deal with it

Michael: What the fuck was going on there?

Nay: I dunno

Mark: First of all, his shower etiquette in general is already bad

Nay: Oh. Okay?

Mark: He was like, "Oh, I rang the doorbell and you didn't answer, so I didn't mean to scare you."

Nay: No. Fuck you.

Mark: I was like, "You're insane. You're a bad person. Don't ever. Ever."

Nay: Sneak up on me in the shower, you will never get in the shower with me again.

Mark: You will die. You'll die.

Nay: You will never get anything from me ever again.

Mark: Yeah. Never

Michael: Yeah. And he's just like, "All in a day! This is probably the least offensive thing I've ever done," is what he's thinking

Nay: And then he wants to rub that shit all over, no. I'm not trying to yuck anyone's yum. If that's your thing, go in, okay? But I, yeah

Michael: Do your thing. No shower shaming here

Mark: For me, the body painting thing was less like; well, first of all, he studies tribal rituals from New Guinea so now he's taking coeds into the shower to body paint them. Okay.

Nay: Fuck my life

Mark: But like, but moreover, the, I was like, you guys could do that outside the shower first so that it wouldn't like essentially wash away the second you do it. I was a little bit, I just, I don't know

Nay: That's funny because I was thinking that if you're gonna do that to me, you'd better do that in the shower so I can wash it right off

Mark: You know what

Nay: This stuff stains

Michael: I still keep thinking about how she should have killed him when he did that first bit to her in the shower, of scaring the shit out of her. So everything that happened after that, I blocked it out

Mark: You blocked it out?

Michael: Because he should have been dead

Mark: At the end of the day, this whole movie is basically a giant cautionary tale about cultural appropriation

Michael: Can we kind of like, backtrack here to the sleeping around thing and talk about the Dean of Women? Who is a powerful female

Mark: It's so refreshing to see such positive lesbian representation

Nay: Y'all silly

Michael: Well, there's an amazing aspect to it. I will give it credit for the fact that in 1981 they actually like put a woman in charge of the school. Because I'm telling you, ninety-nine percent of the time at a girls night school in Boston that had one classroom, I'm gonna say that every time, most people probably would have made that character a man, had it not been a female screenwriter. Let's be honest, I don't think they would have thought to put a woman in there

Mark: Fair enough

Michael: So I think that's a "check yes" box thing, I guess, maybe?

Mark: You're not convinced

Nay: They give the woman that position over a night school where everybody getting killed. I'm not that impressed, y'know?

Michael: True.

Mark: You're like, "She's not doing a bang-up job."

Nay: They gave her a shitstorm, like, that's what they gave her

Michael: That's a really good point

Mark: Also, the character exists pretty much just to have her head end up in a toilet, so you know

Michael: Let's talk about how she is the one that is initially warning these other students to stay away from this lecherous professor

Mark: Professor Millet

Michael: She's not gonna let him come in this school and ruin these young ladies as she's molding their minds.

She's not gonna let him come in this school and ruin these young ladies as she's molding their minds. I love that she speaks every line like that.

[The scene with the Dean comforting Cindy and inviting her to stay the night at her home is played.]

Mark: I'm gonna go out on a limb here and maybe assert that as much as we love Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, that perhaps, ah, as we discussed before, Ruth Avergon was rewritten by Ken Hughes. And I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the lecherous lesbian plot may have been inserted by a...

Michael: By a male fantasy writer?

Mark: By a male writer exorcising some creative, semi-homophobic license.

Michael: Semi's a good...

Mark: I go, "Is it homophobic?" I guess in a sense because, "Oh look a queer person abusing their power." I dunno. I mean, someone take the baton.

Nay: Well, it would be one thing if there were lots of representation, you know?

Michael: Good call.

Nay: Because obviously there are shitty people in every community.

Michael: Absolutely

Nay: Right. You could portray that in an honest way, and that's always fine. You are allowed to do that, but when it's the only one and she happens to be like that, it's a little disappointing

Mark: It's more than a little disappointing

Michael: I was actually watching the movie, and like forty-five minutes in, I like said to Brian, "Oh my God! I totally forgot that there was a lesbian character in this. And like, how cool. It's 1981 and someone wrote a lesbian and in charge. Yaay! Oh." Literally that was like five minutes later.

Mark: Her abuse of power literally comes on the heels...

Michael: For no reason either

Mark: On the heels of her like, (as the Dean of Women) "That Professor Millet is disgusting."

Michael: (as the Dean of Women) "He's disgusting."

Mark: (as the Dean of Women) "He's a monster. I think you need a massage, Cathy." Like, it's just ridiculous.

Nay: (as the Dean of Women) "Wanna stay over, sweet girl?"

Michael: (as the Dean of Women) "He takes advantage of young women. Wanna sleep in my bed?"

Mark: Look. We're always gonna come up short if we're looking for wokeness in slasher movies from the early Eighties.

Michael: Especially 1981

Mark: Yeah. But I mean, Night School, it does, it is important to point out that the lesbian character in Night School is not a very flattering portrayal. Also essentially Rachel Ward's whole, "Brown people made me do it" kind of like position

Michael: Oh my God I never thought of it that way and it's so true.

Nay: That's gross

Mark: Do you know what I mean?

Nay: Yeah

Mark: That is a little bit like, the subtext, is just like "I might not have, you know, sort of done all that." I mean, would she? I don't know. She basically is saying, flat out, she's like, "Oh no. This civilization has been doing this for thousands of years."

Michael: "Yeah. It's so cool. Like, it's fine. It's totally fine. It's cool."

Mark: It's like, "Couldn't you steal something else Rachel? Something a little less destructive, Jesus."

Nay: Couldn't you just like, got some cornrows and got ripped on Twitter? You know what I mean?

Michael: Go to Coachella, put your hair in rolls

Mark: Just Dolezal, Rachel.

Michael: Brennan wants to weigh in, I think

Brennan: Ancient decapitation rituals don't make psychos. They make psychos more creative.

Michael: Oooh, little Billy Loomis action there

Mark: You know, we're getting a slight defense of Rachel Ward here, of Eleanor, I should say. Rachel Ward, I'm sure Rachel is a perfectly inoffensive...

Michael: Non-decapitating

Mark: Trustworthy person. I'm sure you could leave your children with Rachel Ward. Eleanor, however, you know, I wouldn't recommend it

Michael: Allegedly

Mark: Allegedly

Michael: Yeah, I never looked at it that way because I was too focused on, for me, her whole, "I need to get rid of all these other women that are a threat because I am pregnant with your baby and we need to be a family," is very, it played into the Eighties then, but it's even playing in this stuff now to me, where like, you know, "Defend the heteronormative family at all costs and you're okay." And it's very right-wing, very religious right to me, which is just kind of fucking insane.

Mark: Well, yeah.

Michael: And well, granted, it would be one thing if she had all that to say and then gets caught or killed, has some sort of comeuppance. But no, the one time the guy's gonna do anything that he deems to be upstanding is he's gonna take her place, let the police kill him so she can go away and be like, scot-free and it's kind of like, "Wah."

Mark: It feels like there's a giant chicken-egg thing with misogyny in this movie, where you kind of look at Eleanor and go, was she… First of all, was she always unstable or was she driven mad by her partner's casual misogyny and sort of like, you know, using women, throwing them away and just like, sort of looking at that trail of women and being driven mad by her own insecurity, or is it just already just self-generated kind of like, "I hate any woman that's not me?" Kind of? I don't know, I don't know.

Michael: "I want what I want and no one get in my way type thing?" Like, that could be a way to look at it. Nay, what do you think?

Nay: You know, it reminds me of well, something that I realized as I watch things that I watched as a younger person as an older person, does that make sense?

Mark and Michael: Mmm-hmm

Nay: For instance, when I watch Sex and the City and I'm like, "Whoa, Carrie." Or Friends or anything and...

Michael: They're all terrible

Mark: It's a minefield

Nay: I'm like, "Did I learn my foundational relationship instincts from watching these shows?" Because, I like, yeah.

Michael: You watch Friends now and you're like, "Oh my God, Ross has gaslighted Rachel into ten seasons of ending up with him." Yeah. He like literally gas lights her for ten seasons

Nay: Yeah. I'm like, "Ohhh, am I supposed to…" Watching the episode the other night where Carrie is cheating with Big and Aiden's trying to kiss her and she's just like kind of pouty and, "Nah." Not that I'm saying she has to do like, whatever

Michael: But she has great shoes on

Nay: But then it's like, "No, you leave now!" I dunno, I just found myself doing, I did some of that shit in some of my early relationships

Mark: Interesting

Nay: And I think that I truly thought that this is how people act when they're in love. And that, anyway, that, that story, that line of this jealous woman and she's killing all these women, it's kind of like these memes you see now that are like, (frat bro voice)  "I commented on this post so my girlfriend would look for three hours to see what I said." (Normal voice) Or like, "My girlfriend, if I comment on some girl's picture, like some heart-eyes emoji, she's blocking that person or she's stalking that person or she's seeing what her aunt's name is pr where she works." And I think it's just a common theme among, a common theme when it comes to women-identified folks in like, love or lust, where they're like, "You are going to look unstable and you are going to look jealous and it is going to look like you will do anything for dick or for whatever."

Mark: We're fed those representations constantly

Nay: Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah

Mark: I mean, I feel like it's improving

Michael: But we're also fed the fact that like, like you just said, a lot of it is, "The dick just so good, she can't..."

Nay: (mockingly) "It's driving me crazy."

Mark: I actually don't remember Nay saying that, but okay

Michael: She just said, for the dick. For the dick

Nay: When I feel like when people do something for the dick, like in this movie

Michael: In horror, there's a lot of representation of, "The dick so good, she'll kill for it."

Nay: "Dick so good I can't hear this killer coming around the corner to slash me up." Dick so good, yeah.

Mark: I kind of feel like Blockbuster should have had its own...

Michael and Nay: "DICK SO GOOD"!

Nay: Section. Wouldn't that be great?

Michael: It would still be open if that happened. And it's in the shape of a penis.

Michael: But I've read a few scripts in the past few years where there's like a "dick so good" theme going on that I don't even think the writer even realizes it. I've read two scripts in the last few years where the main character was a lesbian and all it took was a good dick for her...

Nay: Oh, Lord.

Michael: To be with a guy.

Mark: Gross

Nay: Yeah, well, it's like sometimes the dick is so good, you know?

Michael: I mean, yeah

Nay: You know, that's real. Or like, the things that come with the dick, like security or the attention or whatever, you know? However, sometimes I'm like, "I know it's just not that good. There's no way you're gonna do all that. Fuck it."

Mark: "I'm gonna run away from this killer."

Nay: Hello. Not happening

Michael: Yeah, like, "I'm not gonna finish. I wanna be able to do this again because I'm not dead," type thing

Mark: Speaking of security, I think one of the biggest laughs in the movie for me is when Eleanor does confess to Professor Millet that she's pregnant and they're in that cafe. Which, you know, only has one employee. Karen MacDonald, shout-out again. And Eleanor's like, "I'm pregnant. Can we get married?" And the professor's like, "I gotta go." He just up and leaves and it's just like, wow, what a prince! Totally worth killing for.

Michael: Right and that's the thing. I wish her character would've gotten to a point where she wanted to kill him

Mark: And that's the thing, Professor Fuckboi, although at the end, he's like, "Okay, give me the helmet."

Michael: "I'll ride the motorcycle off." Oh yeah. We forgot to mention that the killer rides a motorcycle and wears a motorcycle helmet, that's their costume

Mark: Which is a very giallo touch, especially, and the kukri knife...

Michael: You can see everything

Mark: Is a nice little touch

Michael: Great knife. The merry-go-round kill is just beautiful, the opening scene, post-daycare.

Mark: That's amazing

Nay: I did love that one. 'Coz you know you really can't get off that thing when it's going

Michael: Hell no! When it's going that fast? You have to like, steady yourself, you have to wait for it to slow down. I just kept thinking, "Girl, just go in the center and lay on the ground, like lay on the merry-go-round." Make this killer work for it. But there was also the scene in the diner, where your girlfriend, Karen

Mark: My ex-wife

Michael: Your ex-wife Karen gets murdered, is a really good chase scene...

Mark: It is effective

Michael: In the sense that it's in a confined space and the director makes really good use of it and makes it seem like a much bigger location than it really is. But the post, the aftermath to that, where for some reason the guys want stew at seven in the morning before they go building things?

Nay: Ah, fuck. I hate that shit.

Michael: Because what construction worker doesn't want a nice beef stew at seven AM?

Mark: My favorite part of the construction workers is like, "I'll have the stew. And hurry it up, will ya?" It's like, "Go to a restaurant."

Nay: It has to stew. It has to take time

Mark: Yeah. Go to a restaurant and tell the staff to step on it.

Michael: He was like, pissed it wasn't on the table when he got there for the most part

Mark: That wasn't a bad sequence actually, in the kitchen, where you know, he keeps misdirecting over and over

Michael: It was very suspenseful. You were mentioning how you were kind of grossed out during that

Nay: That was the scariest scene to me

Michael: Yeah, it was a great scene

Mark: Well the stew coming out of the pot was truly like, a vile...

Nay: The noises

Michael: It reminds me of A Christmas Story when Ralphie is like, "I gotta go to the bathroom," and they show the pot of chili being lifted open.

Mark: (groans)

Michael: It gave me flashbacks to that, and the plopping sound, was it you that just mentioned the plopping sound?

Nay: Yes. The noises.

Michael: It was so gross!

Nay: That really fucked me up. Like, I was waiting...

Michael: It did. Because it was really suspenseful. It wasn't what you thought it was gonna be.

Nay: All those chunks hitting, and the plopping. I was like, "There's gonna be an eyeball, I just know it."

Michael: And Mister Step-on-it with finding you know, not just a hair, but...

Nay: Like a wad. It was a lot.

Mark: A lot of hair

Michael: So much hair.

Nay: My mom's personal nightmare. Yeah, I definitely thought of her at that moment.

Michael: Your mom has a fear of eating hair?

Nay: Yeah

Mark: Did anyone notice the hockey mask in Gary creepy busboy's apartment?

Michael: No! Was it very Jason? Well, Jason wasn't even in a hockey mask then

Mark: It was a Part V mask, not the sort of goal-tending mask

Michael: Like four years before

Mark: Exactly. And so you'd think, like when I was watching it, "Oh. Shout-out to Friday the 13th because it's Paramount! Wait a minute, the mask wasn't even introduced until the next year in '82."

Michael: Right.

Nay: That's the baby. The baby is Jason. I'm kidding

Mark: Oh my God

Michael: Oh my God

Mark: Night School and Friday the 13th...

Michael: A universe

Mark: Have a shared universe

Michael: Oh my God, Nay

Mark: You guys, Nay has cracked the code. She cracked it, you guys. This isn't trivia so much as a random confluence of coincidences that mean nothing. Kind of like Night School

Nay: Ooooh

Mark: Brennan just gave me the look

Michael: Wait, what?

Mark: I just shaded Night School and...

Brennan: I'm just saying, what you're not saying about this discovering the head scene in the kitchen is that the killer has been decapitating people and putting their heads in water because cultural appropriation that...

Mark: In order to acquire their life force and to cleanse them of evil spirits

Brennan: Yes. Exactly. So you know the head is going to be in a source of water somewhere.

Mark: That's true

Michael: Correct

Brennan: And this guy is going through everything in the world that is just filled with water

Michael: Yeah. He really is. It's like...

Nay: The aquarium, the toilet

Brennan: The part where he's reaching over the fridge and a watermelon falls out of the cupboard, and you think it's the, it's so good, it's so good, it's spectacular

Nay: You right

Michael: It's the best sequence in the entire movie

Mark: It's what comes closest to being witty in the movie and it's...

Michael: I would actually give it full witty

Nay: Wow. You're a bitch

Mark: I am

Michael: What did you say?

Nay: I said, "You're a bitch."

Mark: I'm just goading Brennan at this point

Brennan: My skull is gonna burst out of my head

Michael: Actually, I would give it, Brennan I am on your side there. I would give Night School full witty. Mark, we'll talk about this later.

Mark: Okay

Brennan: While you're on my side, can I say something nice about the shower scene with the weird face paint?

Michael: It's your yum?

Brennan: No! No-no-no-no. But the thing is, if we motivate that scene back-to-front, from like how they wanted to build that scene, 'coz you know, she's in the shower, there's a guy sneaking up on her. It's a very Psycho move. And then it cuts to red swirling down a drain

Michael: Correct

Brennan: And you're like, "Oh, of course! It's just a Psycho thing." And it's just their dumb weird make-up sex thing. But! This movie is so aware that you're expecting something from Psycho and it gives it to you, and I think that's really cool

Michael: Yeah, there are some straight-up moments of homage, and, you know, playing with convention.

Mark: Fair enough

Michael: And it looks good, all their parents were really proud of them when they made this movie. I'm trying to like...

Mark: You're so mean

Michael: No; actually when I saw this when I was twenty-two years old, after seeing Scream in '96 I went through like a slasher crave. Because I would never watch scary movies as a kid. I was always afraid of them. Scream was my introduction to the genre, so slashers have been my baby since day one. I went through every slasher I could possibly get my hands on in college in Bowling Green, Ohio. Video Connection. It's closed, but I'm gonna give it a shout-out. It's somewhere in the aether saying, "Thanks, girl!"

Mark: R.I.P.

Michael: But Night School was one of the eight hundred slasher movies I made my roommates watch, and it was one of my favorite at the time. But a lot has changed in fifteen years. I went to college when I was six. I'm only twenty-one now. So it's interesting, like you were saying, like looking at Chitty Chitty Bang Bang as a child, you have the sentimental value and it must be, may be a different experience if you were to watch it now. And I had a much different experience watching it recently.

Mark: Oh, absolutely. Because these movies only get more offensive as they age.

Nay: Yeah, absolutely

Michael: They get offensive, but you've also gotta remember, though, you kinda gotta like also give them credit where credit's due, where it's like a mainly female cast, they had the audacity to have a female killer, which no one was doing at the time...

Mark: You know, okay, so I wanted to talk about that. Okay, because between this and Happy Birthday to Me, you know...

Michael: Amazing movie

Mark: Yeah.

Michael: Is it though? I haven't seen it in fifteen years

Mark: I remember the last time I saw it being like, "This is cuckoo bananas. I love this movie. It's crazy."

Michael: I love that movie. It's like the Top Ten? What college is this? Or are they in high school in that movie?

Mark: Have you seen it?

Nay: I don't think so

Mark: Oh my God, we need to watch it. It's...

Michael: They're in high school. Brennan says they're in high school. I believe him.

Mark: I believe they're in high school, too. And it's all about being a total drama queen around your birthday, basically

Nay: Oh my God! Me, today! My birthday's tomorrow and I am being a drama queen, honey

Michael: Girl. Then you should watch Happy Birthday to Me this weekend.

Mark: Oh my God. Okay, clearly

Michael: It has one of the most fucked up, like, balls crazy endings. It's like, and I love it so much

Mark: Wasn't the...

Michael: Don't spoil it

Mark: Wasn't the tagline like, "Eight of the craziest murders you will ever see"?

Michael: Yeah and on the cover of the VHS box is a guy getting a shish-kabob stuffed in his mouth and it has food on it. That's my favorite part. The kabob has steak, it has a pepper

Nay: It better. That fucking matters.

Mark: I wanted to sort of float the question of, well, what does that mean that around this time, in early Eighties, and I think horror movies are always a response to what's going on in culture, right?

Michael: Correct

Mark: What did it mean that these movies were featuring like, "Surprise! It's actually women doing it!"

Michael: Well, I don't want to speak for Ruth, the writer (of Night School), but I bet for her it came from a place of, "I never get to see myself represented in all facets here."

Mark: Is she a murderer?

Michael: You know what I mean. There is something, like there's something to me empowering about seeing both sides of the coin when it comes to who the killers are in these movies, you know? And in a fucked up way, for Eleanor, it's a total empowerment tale for her at the end of the day. She's taking stock and getting what she wants, y'know? However fucked up that may sound, like, it's kind of, I dunno. It's an interesting way to look at it. But I mean, I can't think of any other movies around the, I guess Mrs. Voorhees?

Mark: And Sleepaway Camp a few years later

Michael: I guess there were quite a few at this time

Mark: Well, I mean Sleepaway Camp is sort of actually not on a technicality

Michael: But then there's such a huge problem where it's like the crazy psycho girlfriend that is the one killing all these people and it's, like, you know, there's, I dunno

Nay: I'm just glad those women had jobs in 1981, you know? I'm like, play the role, get paid

Michael: There's a lot of female characters in this movie

Mark: Get your coins

Nay: Exactly. Get your coins

Mark: I was doing a little bit of digging and I was like, what was going on at this time, and it sort of seemed that there was tension in the feminist movement regarding difference feminism and equity feminism. And difference feminism was developed in part as a reaction to popular liberal feminism, which was aimed at equality between men and women, emphasizing the differences between men and women that argues that identicality or sameness are not necessary in order for men and women and masculine and feminine values to be treated equally. I was just like, is this some kind of bizarre response to like, women saying, "No, we deserve to be treated equally." So they're like, "Fine!" You know, it's like, in Ruth Avergon's case, of course she's, I'm sure she was like, "Wouldn't this be interesting and fun? Let me try this," you know what I mean? But I'm pretty sure that Happy Birthday to Me was not written by a woman, because it's, it's...

Michael: I don't believe so

Mark: No. And it's because it's such an asterisk on Night School that it was written by a woman. Like there were so few women involved behind-the-scenes during the slasher boom of the early Eighties, so I don't know. Does anyone have any...

Michael: Well I, I kind of wonder for Ruth, I don't want to speak for her, because I don't know who she is and it was made thirty-seven years ago and who knows where or what she is now

Mark: You already said she was a murderer who wanted to see herself on-screen

Michael: But I bet for her, at the time, it was more than just writing a movie.

Mark: I'm sure

Nay: Well, yeah

Michael: Because like you said, very underrepresented. I mean, women and minorities and anyone not you know, a straight white male is still underrepresented today in the industry

Mark: That's for damn sure

Michael: (exhales) God, who knows what the percentage of female writers in film as a whole were, especially in horror

Nay: In 1981? Yeah

Mark: Small.

Michael: In 1981

Mark: Let alone today

Michael: So I bet for her it would be interesting to get ahold of her and I would love to ask her, like, "What were some of your meanings behind this at the time?"

Mark: Ruth, wherefore art thou?

Michael: You know? Because I bet for her she was making some sort of statement about feminism, femininity and suga-booga-wooga. I can't think of any other words at this time.

Mark: Would you guys recommend Night School to our loyal listeners?

Nay: I would

Michael: Yeah. I love it

Nay: Yeah

Mark: I would too

Michael: I don't love the movie, I love your response. I would recommend it one-hundred percent to horror fans. Must watch. Um, I think the general viewing public probably wouldn't care one way or the other what I think, because they would probably wouldn't want to watch it, right? But I think it's a must watch. Especially if you're a slasher fan. To learn the genre

Nay: Yeah. And if you went to night school in Boston with a bunch of women, definitely watch it. Even if you don't remember that you went to night school in Boston with a bunch of women

Michael: It was made for you

Mark: Hopefully you have some more positive memories of your night school experience than the characters...

Nay: Mmm, I don't know

Mark: Really?

Nay: Yeah.

Mark: Just barely?

Nay: Grad school is kind of a lot, yeah

Mark: It's a beast.

Michael: I guess at least you kept your head, question mark

Nay: Yeah.

Mark: Oh, jeez. And what a way to go out on

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