Episode 16: "A Pity Party is My Favorite Party"

''It’s the first episode of 2019, but also the beginning of Listener Request month! Friend of the show Robert Wagner suggested that we sit down with the 1994 Anne Rice adaptation INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE, and… well, we sure did that. Plus, in Tea Time we sip on CAM, WIDOWS, more HILL HOUSE, and the end of Producer Brennan’s CHILDREN OF THE CORN marathon!''

Trivia
First episode of Listener Request Month. The show ran a fundraiser for The Trevor Project in October of 2018 and every five dollar donation gave listeners a chance to suggest a movie for an episode. This movie was suggested by Robert Wagner

Michael: This week we're comin' at you from the panic room inside Leah Remini's home that she bought in someone else's name.

Nay: In J. Lo's name probably because that's her bestie

Mark: Yeah, I know. They're really tight

Michael: Okay, I'm gonna see Second Act and I'm gonna be proud of it, and I'm gonna see it in a movie theater and I'm gonna pay money to see it

Mark: Okay

Topics brought up during the episode: Milo Ventimiglia, Madeline Brewer who was the lead in Cam, Wreck-it Ralph, John C. Reilly, Sarah Silverman, Taraji P. Henson, John Waters's Top Ten Movies of 2018 list, The Crying Game, (Crying Game winning Best Screenplay at the Oscars), Christian Slater, Kirsten Dunst, Thandiwe Newton, makeup FX for Interview with the Vampire by Stan Winston

Tea Time
Nay: finally joined the rest of the world and started The Haunting of Hill House (Netflix)

Mark: Cam, Widows, Ralph Breaks the Internet

Brennan: Ralph Breaks the Internet

Michael: Widows

Shady Summaries
Michael: (asking for the Shady Summaries) Give it to me Joan Crawford style

Nay: Basically any time a white man has been like, "Back when I was a slave owner…" I stop listening

Mark: Watch Brad Pitt be a super-sexy vampire who feels terrible about killing while never once feeling bad about that one time he owned all those slaves

Michael: A vampire movie that makes you feel like a vampire because it's so fucking slow it lasts forever

Pride Float
Mark: So does this movie get a Pride float?

Nay: No

Mark: No?

Nay: No

Michael: I don't think so

Mark: The end!

Michael: Have we not given a Pride float before?

Nay: Yeah

Mark: Uh, yeah

Nay: There was something we didn't give it to

Michael: Well, we made Sleepaway Camp do community service

Nay: Okay?

Mark: We totally were like, "You don't get to go to Pride!"

Nay: No

Mark: "You have to stay home..."

Michael: "You have to work at..."

Nay: "You have to donate money."

Mark: Sleepaway Camp has to pick up trash on the side of the freeway forever

Michael: Yeah and that's the other thing, too, is I think the movie, had it just gone there with the gay, it might have been a completely Prideful film

Mark: I didn't even understand what were they after?

Michael: Right. Like, what were they doing?

Mark: Armand is like, (as Antonio Banderas) "I need you, I need you, I need you." And I was like, 'For what? What are y'all gonna fucking do?'

Michael: You're not gonna pork?

Mark: "All you're doing is moping in this fucking old spaghetti factory"

Michael: Lestat should have fucking answered Allie's fucking ad for a roommate and the two of them could have lived happily ever after

Mark: There you go

Nay: Crossover!

Michael: But yeah, that's a really good point. What did he want? Just companionship?

Mark: Well clearly yes, companionship. But that's the thing, is that Anne Rice in the book too, very much dances around all this stuff. You know, this kind of like, you know, they're all wanting an LTR, you know

Michael: But no bone downin'

Mark: No, but that's the thing

Michael: Very celibate

Mark: I forget, but yes. As a vampire, your interest in sex--

Michael: You're supposed to ooze it, right? Like you ooze sexuality?

Mark: Yes, but I don't remember any kind of literal release, as it were...

Michael: Hmm. That's too bad

Mark: In the book. I don't remember any. Don't quote me.

Michael: Okay

Mark: 'Cause it was, it's been (younger voice) a whole three years since I read it in high school

Michael: (younger voice) Ah, freshman year. I can't believe we're going to prom soon

Mark: (younger voice) I know. You guys, we have to end this podcast because my mom is going to start worrying, right?

Michael: (younger voice) She made Stove Top

Michael: So no Pride float? Are we saying no Pride float? Not in '94 and not in 2018?

Mark: Nothing?

Nay: Not me

Michael: Brennan, I think you'd give it one

Brennan: Ahh… (stammers)

Michael: Safe space

Brennan: I just want Antonio Banderas to stare at me. That's all I need

Michael: Well you don't need a Pride float for that

Brennan: Just bring him, yeah. I don't need a float

Mark: I feel that in 1994, Antonio Banderas singing "Nothing Really Matters" in that kimono with the dancing vampires?

Nay: Yeah

Mark: In '94. Today? Nyah. No.

Michael: Not today

Brennan: No, and that's fine. It's good to recognize that we have a certain amount of like a weird amount of privilege in that we have a lot more LGBT-oriented culture now. And the reason that we like this is because there wasn't anything. I wish Jeff (Nelson) was here

Michael: Visibility, like Sam Wineman said, visibility is important

Brennan: And that's why we are drawn to these things that are negative stereotypes or caricatures or this isn't necessarily that, it's negative in other ways. But we're still drawn to negative things because it's the only scraps of candy that we have for us at all

Michael: Right. Well, you know what's interesting… (to Mark) Go ahead

Mark: I was gonna say, Interview with the Vampire's idea of visibility is like, it brings in visibility, it's like someone coming to your house to give you a present and while they're there, they shit all over the rug and they gave you a beautiful present, but you're like, "Oh my God! You got slavery all over my rug! Thank you for the beautiful present. Please--"

Michael: (laughing) "You got slavery all over my rug"!

Mark: "Ugh, Interview with the Vampire, I know you meant well on some level, but ohhhhh."

Michael: "We really love the wine glasses"

Mark: I dunno. Does that make sense? Kind of?

Nay: Yeah

Michael: You know, I looked back. I was doing a lot of research on reviews. I don't know why I always just assumed the movie was critically beloved. It wasn't.

Mark: No. Not at all

Michael: Like half and half

Nay: Didn't Anne Rice not even like it?

Michael: Oh really

Mark: Oh no. She was down. I remember her

Michael: She was DTF on her own film?

Mark: She was panting with excitement

Michael: Oh yeah

Mark: Oh yeah. She was excited

Nay: Someone told me that she didn't like it and she publicly said that

Michael: I know she hated Queen of the Damned

Mark: Hated that

Nay: Maybe they were thinking of that. 'Cause they were like, "Someone got up her ass and then all of a sudden everything changed."

Michael: Oh really?

Nay: Yeah

Mark: But aside from Aaliyah, Queen of the Damned is truly one of the most godawful

Nay: I hear that. I'll never say anything about Aaliyah, R.I.P., but the rest of that?

Mark: No, again, I made a huge asterisk

Nay: Yeah. And I agree with it

Mark: But holy shit

Michael: Stuart Townsend in that, too?

Mark: But that's, I mean there's no way to win that role.

Michael: No

Mark: Like, "I'm a vampire rock star"? The second you're playing a vampire rock star in a movie, it's already, you're already going to come across as Criss Angel: Mindfreak. Like, just, oy. I dunno

Michael: That was funny 'cause that came right around the time that movie Rock Star, too, where Mark Wahlberg was a rock star and it was just like...

Mark: I did not watch that

Michael: Oh, never. I remember seeing the preview and being like, "This is a movie I can't wait to never watch."

Mark: Boogie Nights is the only movie with him that I've watched and I just...

Michael: Yeah

Mark: 'Cause that movie's amazing

Michael: That movie's great

Brennan: Instead of a Pride float, how about we just hand out DVDs of Only Lovers Left Alive

Mark: Oh!

Brennan: And if we're looking for some queer Antonio Banderas, Law of Desire. Great movie. Check out both of those

Michael: And he's really cute in Philadelphia

Mark: That's true

Brennan: Just whenever he's there? In the city? J/K

Michael: Well, he's just a wonderful representation of a loving partner in that movie

Mark: Yeah, Antonio has been down with the gays for a long-ass time

Michael: He sure has!

Mark: He's pretty rad

Michael: Just realizing that right now. It's pretty great

Mark: And have you guys seen Skin I Live In, which is a movie we should definitely do

Brennan: Oh yeah

Michael: Oh, Brian loves that movie

Mark: Wooooooooof!!!!!

Brennan: Tie Me Up, Tie Me Down?

Mark: Oh man, oh man. If we do The Skin I Live In, we talk about--

Michael: There's a lot of (Almodovar's) movies we need to do

Mark: Oh man

Nay: Hot?

Brennan: (sighs orgasmically)

Mark: (groans orgasmically)

Nay: Oh my God!

Brennan: It's a real...

Michael: Girl, we're gonna have to reupholster your seat

Nay: Mark is masturbating right now

Mark: Panty pudding, okay?

Michael: (singsong) Vanilla!

Quotes
Mark: Rebecca Part Two

Michael: The Return of the Becks?

Nay: Dear God

Mark: Becky's Revenge!

Mark: We're still recording this at the end of 2018, so we're just gonna go out on a limb here and say that we survived the rest of the year--

Michael: Y2K two?

Mark: And that we made it into 2019, we crawled, ragged and bleeding into 2019, ready for more, more of--

Michael: Poop

Mark: Yeah. More of, I dunno. Fill in the blank. Oh, God.

Mark: Nay, you look like you're biting your tongue. Why?

Nay: I'm not! I'm not biting anything

Mark: Okay

Michael: Yeah, you actually look like you are just smiling really nicely

Nay: I was

Brennan: Your tongue is Buddha

Mark: Nay, you're so full of serenity right now and I love it

Michael: Your tongue's Buddha

Nay: Who's she? Who's Serenity?

Mark: I love serenity Nay. I mean, I love all Nays

Michael: Yeah

Mark: But I especially love serenity Nay

Michael: Serenity Nay

Mark: She just nodded sagely, listeners

Nay: I did! That's true

Michael: She smelled sage, too

Michael: All right, spill it. Whatcha watching, whatcha reading, whatcha doing?

Mark: Jesus Christ. Remember when we used to prepare these podcasts? We were like, (host voice) "And now it's time for us to…" (normal voice) and literally now, Michael's like Joan Crawford going like, "Listen!"

Michael: We're warm with our audience, right? We have our regular listeners, they know what's up

Mark: All right, so Tea Time

Michael: And I also wanted to be Joan Crawford

Mark: You did also wanna be Joan Crawford

Nay: Forever

Nay: As many of you might know this about me at this point, I have attention span issues and I try to start things all the time and I notice an hour later that I'm still staring at my phone and that I have no idea what has happened. So I tried to start (The Haunting of Hill House) several times, especially after everyone talked so highly of it. I mean, shit, after Michael talked about it a couple episodes ago and made me cry while we were taping

Michael: Aww

Nay: I was like, I definitely have to try again, and I get it. I get it.

Michael: Yeah

Nay: It's very good. Can't binge it

Michael: No

Nay: I didn't believe you when you said that, "It's not a binge thing." And I'm like, "I can binge anything!"

Mark: You were like, "I'll be the judge of that!"

Nay: Yeah, queen binger and I, yeah

Michael: You need to let it, you need to like chew it. You can't just swallow it. Yeah, I still think about it

Mark: I hope they put that on the poster.

Michael: Oh my God, that's like the season two poster. "Don't chew us."

Mark: "You can't swallow it. Haunting of Hill House 2."

Michael: I listened to the playback talking about that. Yeah, it still really affects me. Like I could actually cry right now. I'm like holding it back

Mark: Aww

Michael: Go on, Nay

Nay: That's all I have. So that I don't spoil anything. I don't have anything else really to say about it, but started it, really like it. And that I can't binge it, because it's so potent

Michael: That's a really good word to describe it

Nay: It's like, for me, when I get home and if I want some background noise, I'll put on The Office, as per usual, because I can kind of hear that and it makes me feel safe and cozy

Michael: Absolutely

Mark: Sure

Nay: But Haunting of Hill House, I feel like, I haven't felt very well the past couple of weeks, and I'd be like, "I can't watch that shit." It makes my whole room feel so cold. It's potent

Michael: It is. And I get that some people didn't really care for it. I mean, everybody's different, right? I just really love it 'cause I connected with it, so it's a really important show for me. I think it was my favorite anything this year, movie or TV show. And I'm glad you're watching. How far have you gotten?

Nay: I think episode six, so there's like, what, ten or nine?

Mark: There's nine

Michael: Nine or ten? And six is like, mmmm.

Mark: Clinical

Nay: Gotta chew jt

Michael: Oh yeah

Mark: Chew it

Michael: Chew it. Om-nom-nom-nom

Brennan: I know people have been waiting on tenterhooks to hear about the end of my Children of the Corn marathon

Mark: Oh Jesus Christ

Michael: Oh, you made it through

Brennan: I did. I survived. Let me pull up my notes really quick

Mark: I'm gonna go to the bathroom

Nay: I think I already did

Brennan: No no no. It's so brief, I honestly have so little to say about the last one

Mark: Okay okay okay. So what is the last one called?

Brennan: The most recent one? Children of the Corn: Runaway. That's the one that came out this year

Michael: Can you just give us the subtitles, those are my favorite parts

Mark: I know, the subtitles are totally the best part

Brennan: I'll just run through them really quick. Part 7…

Michael: Well, you didn't- what's Part 6?

Brennan: Part 6 is 666: Isaac's Return

Mark: Of course

Michael: Obviously

Brennan: Part 7 is Children of the Corn: Revelation. It takes place entirely in an apartment building in Omaha.

Michael: These are all so Dimension Films keep the rights sequels

Mark: How do they get the corn in the apartment building?

Brennan: Oh, they grow it in the patio area

Mark: Oh! As one does

Michael: You're fucking kidding

Brennan: I am not at all

Mark: So it's like a co-op

Brennan: Basically

Mark: Okay

Brennan: But I mean everyone's getting murdered, and there's a guy--

Michael: Like people have to go out on that patio and get killed?

Brennan: No, they mostly fall from above into the corn

Mark: So the corn patio….

Brennan: No, I really- don't in any way take it to mean that the movie is good. It's unwatchable. But Michael Ironside is there for about twenty-point-three seconds

Mark: Okay

Brennan: He shows up and gives some exposition that he has no reason to know about and then he just vanishes. And you're like, "Oh. You're not even gonna help her?

Michael: So dumb

Mark: You can see him cashing, just picking up a check

Brennan: Oh yeah

Michael: You just hear a "ka-ching '' in the back of a cash register opening

Brennan: Oh, and there's a character in the apartment complex, his entire character is that he's in a wheelchair and he shouts cuss words at everyone, and that's just his whole thing and I was kinda like, "The dream"

Michael: Okay, fully dimensional

Brennan: Children of the Corn '09, the Syfy remake. It's a lot of--

Michael: Is that in- that's just a straight-up remake, it's not in the canon of anything?

Mark: That was a TV movie, right?

Brennan: Yeah, TV movie. And it is a straight-up remake, set in the Seventies, which, I don't get why a remake has to be set in the original time. Not for me

Michael: I like when Texas Chainsaw did that

Brennan: Yeah, but not all of them are as good as the Texas Chainsaw remake

Michael: Right

Brennan: This one is just Vicky and Burt just screaming at each other for forty-five minutes

Michael: Who are Vicky and Burt? Oh, that's right, the remake

Mark: Peter Horton and Linda Hamilton

Brennan: Yeah, the adults.

Mark: But not, because they're on Syfy

Brennan: And Malachai is played by like this strapping twenty-eight year old ginger dude and I don't know if that's the best casting or the worst casting, but I was into it

Mark: Go on

Brennan: We should actually get him on the show. He's gay, his name is Daniel Newman, he's on The Walking Dead, too

Mark: (faux snob voice) Suddenly I'm interested in a Children of the Corn movie

Brennan: My favorite thing about that one is the end credits theme. It has all the Children of the Corn choir thing that you know and love. Like, (imitating children's choir singing)

Mark: Yep. Oh yeah

Brennan: Actually, you know what? I have it. Hold on.

Michael: I'm looking up Daniel Newman right now

Nay: Me too

Michael: Oh girl

Brennan: It's a dubstep remix of the Children of the Corn theme

Mark: Stop it. Stop.

Brennan: Children of the Corn: Genesis, completely incomprehensible, but I kinda liked. And Children of the Corn: Runaway weirdly reminiscent of Terminator 2 in the sense that it's about someone surviving a cult and wandering around with their son and just like, trying to survive, like in the midwest

Mark: Okay

Brennan: But otherwise not really worth your attention

Michael: How many are there?

Brennan: Ten

Mark: Forty

(The dubstep remix starts to play)

Michael: Oh girl. Sorry, Nay and I are looking up Daniel Newman right now.

Nay: Ayyyy. Ayyyy.

Brennan: Can't you see Christian Grey and Anastasia Steele just ramming each other to this song?

Mark: Yeah, (Daniel) should come on

Michael: Get him on

Nay: God, this bassline, I'm into it

Mark: What if we do the rest of the pod with this underscoring?

Michael: Oh my God. I feel like slowly taking my clothes off

Brennan: Like a horror burlesque? We could do it. People would come

Mark: Ah. Oh. Well, that's gonna be quite a benefit performance innit?

Brennan: Anyway, that's the most important thing about the Children of the Corn franchise as a whole, is that song

Mark: Thank you, Brennan!

Brennan: You're welcome

Mark: Oh my God. For all your Children of the Corn related needs and insights

Michael: I'm still looking up Daniel Newman

Brennan: Oh yeah, he's uh…

Mark: No, we're actually recording something by the way right now, Michael

Nay: Yeah, what are we here for today?

Michael: Josh and I really enjoyed (Widows)

Nay: I wanna meet Josh

Mark: Well, you will!

Nay: Okay

Mark: Alright, we'll do it. (faux exasperation) All right, fine!

Michael: Just pull him out from under the table

Mark: He's like, "Hello!"

Mark: I'm doing a poor job of describing why (Ralph Breaks the Internet) is so charming

Michael: No

Mark: But I was thoroughly charmed by it in ways that I did not expect to be

Nay: You've never done a poor job at describing anything, Mark

Mark: (Valley Girl voice) Oh my God, thanks

Nay: (Valley Girl voice) You're welcome

Brennan: Can I say something?

Mark: Yes

Nay: (pretending to be annoyed) I guess

[Everyone laughs]

Mark: (to Brennan) You may speak

Brennan: Mark, I love the range and the depth of your love for things. You contain multitudes

Michael: That's a really good point

Nay: True

Michael: I'm glad you spoke

Brennan: You come here and you talk about like, "Oh, I watched this Japanese art film..."

Michael: Right?!

Brennan: "Made in Poland or whatever," and it's about a divorce, because they're all about divorces

Michael: "It's made upside down in space."

Mark: They're all about divorces

Nay: It's true

Brennan: Yeah, but then you're here with Ralph Breaks the Internet and I just love people that can take things that are perceived as high culture and low culture and love them both

Michael: There's no snobbery

Brennan: Yeah. And that's a really special thing

Mark: Thank you. I am snobby about some things

Nay: I was gonna say

Mark: I just don't talk about them

Nay: I definitely feel all snob coming from Mark

Mark: Really?

Nay: Oh yeah

Mark: Oh, wow

Nay: That's just what happens when people are really smart, talking passionately

Michael: Yeah, like when he was talking about Ralph Breaks the Internet with his pinky out

Nay: Yeah, no. Did you see it? It was firmly out

Mark: Also I'm wearing a monocle

Michael: And holding absinthe

Mark: Swishing it around lazily in a snifter, petting a cat

Michael: But I do, I appreciate your thoughts at Tea Time because for instance, Forever we watched because of you. We watched Custody, which, that fucking movie. Ooof, is it great. Have you seen it?

Nay: Mm-mmm

Michael: Nay.

Nay: I still haven't watched Forever

Michael: You will love it.

Robert Wagner on why he chose Interview with the Vampire: Hi, my name is Robert Wagner and I chose Interview with the Vampire. I chose this movie for two reasons. I believe it's a landmark film in the horror genre and it made a big and lasting impression on me. So thank you Anne Rice and thank you Neil Jordan. The first time I watched it I was definitely too young, but it was the first vampire film I saw that showed them in a different dimension. Up until that point, the only interpretations I had been exposed to were the really scary ones: Bela Lugosi, Christopher Lee, and they were successfully scary. But in Interview with the Vampire, while I also think the movie is scary, we follow the vampires as opposed to the humans and we learn everything there is to know about being a vampire. I think this was a first not only for me, but maybe vampire movies in general. The acting, the dialogue, the art direction and every other element coalesced to make it something truly unique. Which is why I think it's perfect for this podcast. The hosts of this podcast have wit, humor and intelligence and I very much look forward to hearing you all discuss this film.

Michael: Ohh

Nay: Who?

Michael: Thank you Robert

Mark: Well actually, now that Robert actually did the podcast for us--

Michael: Yeah, should we just end it right now?

Mark: No, we can- good night, everyone

Michael: It's a short- this is a webisode

Mark: Well thanks Robert. Thanks for listening and thanks for choosing this very polarizing film, you know? It'll be an interesting discussion

Michael: Yeah, it's a very um- Robert sounds smart

Mark: Yeah, and you know...

Michael: Very thoughtful statement

Mark: Very. Extremely. And certainly understands the reasons, you know, we'd be drawn to the film. I understand the sort of vague nostalgia vibes...

Nay: Yeah

Mark: From seeing it at a certain age

Michael: Yeah, it sounds like a, what did we call it, a legacy film? Or development film? What did we call ourselves, movies that helped shape us? That's what it sounds like

Mark: Very much so

Nay: Gotcha

(Brennan plays the trailer for the movie) Michael: (to Brad Pitt) Could you pick up the pace?

Mark: All the vampires sound really tired

Michael: Yeah

Nay: They gotta be, they old as hell!

Mark: True

Michael: Do they all eat a lot of turkey?

Narrator in the trailer: He chose one man.

Mark: Mmm-hmm

Narrator: He gave him infinite power

Mark: Is that what they're calling it?

Michael: Even the trailer guy sounds bored.

(Mark and Nay are offended on Robert's behalf)

Michael: No, I'm just saying the trailer is not, it has no energy

Mark: Okay Robert. So we, Robert. We are definitely going to make sure to address the things we appreciate about the movie--

Michael: Absolutely! I actually know Robert

Mark: Oh you do!

Michael: He's actually a friend of mine that donated. Yeah, so. Yep yep. You can say whatever, you're not gonna offend him

Mark: Oh, got it!

Michael: Yeah, he's a very cool, chill person. I didn't know if that was appropriate for me to say, but I think a lot of people that donated were people that we knew, so chances are someone we knew was going to get a movie picked

Brennan: Yeah that's true. Especially because it was our first year and our first couple of months of the podcast

Michael: I mean, it was a lot of people I, a lot of my friends were the donators

Brennan: It was a big ask. Michael's got a lot of friends

Michael: So yeah, I know Robert and yeah. We can say whatever, he doesn't care.

Brennan: Just as a buffer, I like this movie a lot

Michael: I'm sure a lot of people know this stuff, but I thought I'd give them what I'd call the "1994 panty pudding" ingredients. Which are Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise...

Mark: Did you just say, "panty pudding"?

Michael: (laughing) Yes. And Antonio Banderas

Nay: Michael you are so fuckin' disgusting. Like at all times

Mark: (moans in disgust)

Nay: Panty pudding!

Michael: Brad Pitt. Born to darkness. 1791.

Mark: This movie is- I feel Robert in the sense that I remember in 1994 seeing this movie and needing some kind of… I was buying what this movie was selling at the time. Which, you know, watching now, the scenes between Brad Pitt and Antonio Banderas, I feel like I'm watching The Hills, because they're just sort of sitting by candlelight talking about I don't even know what. And I was just like, "What's happening?" I just; anyway. Here's the thing. There's so many beautiful beautiful beautiful elements to this movie

Michael: It's gorgeous

Mark: The opening with Elliot Goldtenthal's score and that incredible aerial shot over the Golden Gate Bridge into San Francisco and then into the streets of San Francisco leading all the way up to the apartment, where I guess there's a Scruff hookup that happened and then they decided to interview each other?

Mark: To me, as soon as I started the movie, I was like, "Oh God, I love this movie." And then the movie started and I was like (nasal voice) "Oh yeah. Slavery." I remember being like...

Michael: Oops

Nay: Oops

Brennan: For the record- sorry, I'm trying not to interrupt too much. But for the record, I actually didn't rewatch this for the podcast. I'm so sorry

Mark: (sternly) Leave this room

Brennan: And my memories of liking it a lot do not involve the slave parts

Mark: Yeah

Brennan: Redacting that is mainly just Antonio Banderas talking into Brad Pitt's mouth is what I remember, so

Mark: There's a lot of (as Antonio Banderas) "We are big Hollywood stars and we are close-talking!"

Michael: Everyone's like Fabio with their hair

Mark: They never show the vampires' hair care process

Nay: True

Mark: And I was just like, "I guess you literally did wake up like this."

Michael: Right

Mark: It's just, you come out of the coffin like, oven fresh. Right?

Michael: Just like shake it out?

Nay: The coffins, you know, those protect the stylings. It's like sleeping in a fuckin' durag, honestly

Mark: Hot oil treatment

Nay: Yeah. Silk. It's good for your skin and your hair

Michael: There's a couple shots of Brad Pitt just kind of oozin', lookin' with his hair over to one side and I know I bring this show up a lot, but like he has Kelly Bundy's haircut. But am I wrong? I'm like, I love it. And he's like pursing his lips and I'm just like, "Girl. Get it."

Mark: Josh watched it with me and he was just like, "Wasn't dating Angelina Jolie at this time?"

Michael: He was with Paltrow

Mark: No, it was Paltrow or whatever and I was like, "No." And he was like, "He looks exactly like Angelina Jolie in this movie." And I was like, we paused it and I was like, (Charlton Heston voice) "Oh my God."

Nay: That's amazing

Michael: So, (Brad Pitt's) character starts off, his wife died, his kid died, and now he wants to die

Nay: (mockingly) Oh, it's so sad when your family members die even though you own people whose family members died, waaah

Michael: Right?

Nay: Like you should kill yourself

Michael: And thank you

Nay: I only say that to slaveowners

Michael: And that's the thing--

Mark: And that's Attack of the Queerwolf!

Michael: The thing is, with his character, his character doesn't change the entire movie. He just mopes the entire movie, y'know? I never understood like, what does he want?

Mark: Um, he--

Michael: He wanted to die and then he wanted to be a vampire in the moment he got to choose, right? And then he hated being a vampire

Mark: Having read the book, what I remember from having read the book when I was in high school...

Michael: There's like no arc

Mark: In science class, like devouring that shit. Because I had heard it was gay as fuck. I remember Louis is looking for some kind of release from grief. And here's the thing. When the question of slave ownership comes in and it's treated as this kind of- they let him off the hook kind of, in the movie. It's like when he comes out of the house and is like (as Brad Pitt) "Hear me now! This place is cursed!"

Michael: Yeah. "You're all free"?

Mark: (as Brad Pitt) "You're all free men!"

Michael: Forgetting to tell them that I just killed this woman

Mark: Yeah. Aside from that part. Putting that aside, I don't remember how the book handles it. What I did take into account was the irony of the movie is that again, he is ashamed of the act of killing and yet the brutality of depriving someone of their freedom--

Michael: Which probably came with death itself that they don't really talk about

Mark: No, condemning people in a sense to a living death, right? Which ironically as a vampire he should suddenly maybe be a tad more empathetic about. It's, I was like, there's room for something interesting here where the idea would be like, "Huh. Becoming a vampire might actually be the best thing that ever happened to you developing a sense of humanity." But of course--

Michael: Which would have been interesting if they did that

Mark: I was like, did the book touch on any of that? I can't remember

Michael: Never read it. (to Nay) Did you read it?

Mark: But I dunno

Nay: No. I wasn't even allowed to watch it. My, you know

Michael: Yeah, I'm trying to think of the first time I watched it. I think I was in college when I watched it and I don't remember how I felt about it

Nay: I was younger than that because I was really good at sneaking to watch

Michael: You were!

Mark: You were

Nay: I was. And like, single parent home. She at work. You know what I mean? My aunts live across the street, they don't know what I'm watching on TV

Mark: What's Dab gonna do?

Nay: What is Dab gonna do? Deidre Ann Bevver, what she gonna do?

Michael: (fey voice) Dab spelled backwards is "Bad"

Nay: But I also, vampires just made me so fuckin' horny as a kid--

Michael: (gasps orgasmically)

Nay: And I would like, die to see anything that I could of any vampire movie ever

Michael: That's… so, all right, so I just did a mini, I had a mini in my seat here

Mark: (cracking up) Can that be the show title?

Nay and Mark: (in unison) "Vampires made me so horny as a kid"?

Michael: But was it just me or was that smoldering horniness gone from this story?

Nay: I didn't feel it this time

Michael: At all!

Nay: Watchin' it through

Michael: I just kept thinking like...

Mark: They just seemed like goth kids in a cafeteria a lot of the time

Michael: I just kept being like, watching it this time like, "Is Tom Cruise seeing dailies? Does he know what he's doing here?" He's not a vampire, he's a-vampin'. He is a vamp

Mark: Does he know that he's Glenn Close in Dangerous Liaisons (1988) in Interview with the Vampire? That's not a complaint by the way.

Michael: No.

Mark: It's one of my favorite things about the movie

Michael: There's just so many things to say. I will say there is some oozing sexuality with the first bite and they essentially both have an orgasm in that moment. And there is...

Mark: And then he drops him in the ocean. He's like, "Bye!"

Michael: The clip is literally him asking, "Will you come or no?"

(A clip of the scene where Lestat asks Louis if he wants to become a vampire is played)

Lestat: I've drained you to the point of death

Brennan: Every Scruff hookup

Mark: Yep

Lestat: If I leave you here, you die

Michael: Scruff again

Lestat: But you must tell me friend, will you come or no?

Michael: Twice

Michael: So, what do you think? I think the movie gets pretty gay right away. Yeah?

Mark: This movie got gayer with age. It's like gay wine. It's just...

Michael: Do you think it has to do with, and this is just a random question I thought off the top of my head when you said that, but do you think it has something to do with the awareness of yourself as you've aged?

Mark: No, not for me anyway

Michael: Okay

Mark: I mean, I certainly, someone else could absolutely take it that way

Michael: I don't remember it being this gay when I was in my twenties

Mark: Well, the thing is for me, the sheer amount of like, the close talking and talking into each other's mouths and sort of longing glances and--

Michael: Very Lifetime movie-like

Mark: And full, full flowy hair

Michael: It was the style apparently in 1790 New Orleans

Mark: I don't know, there's just something so unrelentingly kind of...

Michael: Gay?

Mark: But in a way that's-- I mean it's funny because when I was a kid, I found this movie, I was like, (whispers) "This is so sexy!" (normal voice) And watching it now, I was like, "This movie is so campy, it's so campy." Oh my God, especially when Antonio Banderas arrives? I was like, "This is like when Cher finally shows up in Mamma Mia 2." Because he shows up with the hair and he's like, (as Antonio Banderas) "I am Armand." I was like, "Is that a French accent? I don't know! I don't understand!"

Michael: Well that other fuckin' dude is like doing fucking Mary Poppins under that bridge. I'm like, "What the fuck is going on here?"

Mark: Okay, but see I love that sequence

Michael: I love it, too, but it's just like--

Mark: I love that moment

Michael: I don't remember, it felt really hokey to me this time. I don't remember it being feeling hokey when I saw it fifteen years ago. Nay, what do you think?

Nay: Yes, I can remember it being sexy when I was young

Michael: Yeah

Nay: And then absolutely not when I rewatched it.

Nay: Also, drinking game for y'all Queerwolf fans that drink: Any time I say, "Absolutely," take a drink. I know I say it way too often so have fun with that, but it is absolutely not--

Michael: I say the word, "interesting" a lot, I've noticed

Nay: I really hate what I notice when I re-listen. I'm like, "Say 'absolutely' one more time, bitch." It happens

Michael: Brad Pitt's character to me, though, he starts the movie off so low energy and then becomes a vampire, so that doesn't change. So I'm just like, "Why am I following this whiny, boring entitled man?"

Mark: So he was a deeply, Brad Pitt was deeply unhappy making this movie

Michael: Was he?

Mark: Deeply. Hated, tried to get out of it, even during shooting

Michael: Why?

Mark: Because apparently the makeup was a fucking nightmare

Michael: Right in the scrote

Mark: And he--

Michael: Really, the makeup?

Mark: He hated hated hated everything about making this movie and you can tell. He's turned in good performances, it's not like he's not talented

Michael: Yeah. He's great in Se7en and Fight Club and so many others

Mark: I think he's terribly terribly lost in this movie

Michael: Well I feel like the movie besides Kirsten Dunst, is completely miscast.

Nay: Yeah

Michael: Like I think Tom Cruise is miscast--

Mark: I love all of that

Michael: I think Antonio Banderas is miscast, I think that Brad Pitt is miscast. I actually think you could take those three actors and just kind of move them into each other's roles, probably

Mark: I wish

Michael: You know what I mean? Brad Pitt in the Tom Cruise role, I think I would have bought more of than

Mark: Interesting

Michael: Tom Cruise in the Tom Cruise role

Mark: Johnny Depp was offered the role of Lestat

Michael: Oh, that could've been interesting. He could've worn makeup, he loves doing that

Mark: And then we could've cancelled the movie now. No, that's not fair. That's not fair. You know what? That's not fair. Because you know, there's one movie I can't bear to let go of because it's so good, is Ed Wood

Michael: It is a great movie. And Edward Scissorhands is great too

Mark: (to Nay) Did you ever see Ed Wood?

Nay: Mm-mm

Mark: Oh my God. It's so beautiful. Tim Burton's best movie… talk about a movie we need to watch for this

Michael: So I love, the thing that I'm noticing-- is this our second or third vampire movie?

Brennan: The Lost Boys

Michael: Is there another one? That's it, right?

Mark: I'm pretty sure that's it.

Brennan: I think that's it

Michael: But I feel like even in these two movies, I don't know if it's just me being stupid and thinking otherwise, but I love- the thing I love about vampire movies, no matter what kind of vampire movie it is, whether it's a comedy or a drama or horror or whatever, I love finding out the rules the movie has for vampires and I kind of love that this, like, plays with conventions but also uses conventions, too. Like they sleep in coffins, but garlic is bullshit

Mark: So are crosses

Michael: That's one of my favorite- yeah, crosses are bullshit. Crucifixes, like they have reflections. No Dracula. I love that they actually called out Dracula. Feed by blood, of course--

Mark: Callout culture finally--

Nay: Yeah

Mark: Callout culture finally reached Dracula

Nay: Light him up, girl!

Michael: Get out of here, Dracky!

Mark: Drag her!

Michael: Drag that bitch! Stake through the heart is nonsense. So, I dunno. What do you guys think of movies that play with vampire lore I guess, in that sense. I mean, who- for me, I've always thought of stake through the heart is- oh! The David Bowie movie is a vampire movie

Mark: Oh yeah! We did The Hunger

Brennan: The Hunger

Mark: Lest we forget

Michael: So, I've always gone with the garlic, stake through the heart, sunlight, those kind of things

Mark: You like meat and potatoes vampires

Michael: Well that's what I'm used to and maybe I just never noticed this, but does anyone know where the hardened vampire rules started?

Nay: Uh, from vampires

Michael: Good night!

Mark: Duh

Nay: Duh. Those were their needs

Michael: I just want to talk about the rules. Sometimes I think movies do them so they can cheat. You know, did it play into the uniqueness of the film, 'cause Robert is right, there is a uniqueness to it, there's a quality to it that no other vampire movie has

Mark: Mmm-hmm. Because it leans into the melancholy to the point that it can be oppressive to viewers. But Anne Rice really did set out to write an existentialist vampire epic. Unfortunately I think the movie sort of is mostly successful when it's having fun

Michael: Yeah. I agree

Mark: And when it's- you know, there's fun moments of conflict. There's also a lot of scenes of like vampires yelling.

Michael: Right

Mark: Like, "We're bad!"

Michael: Yeah. I was thrown this time watching it, too, how many times they refer to themselves as vampires. The word "vampire" is used so much in the movie. And that actually threw me too, 'cause I feel like they don't actually acknowledge ever- like I don't think Lost Boys ever utter, the vampires ever utter themselves that they're vampires. But I felt like it's friggin' Grey's Anatomy where every single second on that show, one of them makes the point of saying, "Well, I'm a surgeon! So I get the last donut!" And I felt like Tom Cruise every three seconds was like, "As a vampire…"

Mark: True

Michael: And I'm like, "What, are you Meredith Grey?"

Brennan: That's my favorite thing about TV shows with psychic characters. Like, "I don't need to be psychic to know that you're hurting right now."

Michael: So great. So yeah, I dunno. Vampire rules. Are there any? Is it just whatever, you didn't think about it? I just kept thinking about it the whole movie

Nay: I do like when there's just a lot of consistency. I don't really care if a particular rule sticks as long as it's super consistent throughout the film. Because that makes it feel like science. Otherwise I can't really, I just can't get down unless it's like, you know, really consistent. But I liked that other than the coffins, that everything else they were like, "Nah, that's bullshit." Because...

Mark: And sunlight

Nay: And the sunlight

Mark: Just coffins and sunlight

Nay: 'Cause it sure did burn their asses up

Michael: Stoned them, yeah

Nay: I appreciated that, because something about that makes it feel more legit or more honest...

Michael: And threatening

Nay: And threatening, yeah.

Michael: Yeah, like there is essentially a ticking clock every day

Michael: Mark, anything? No?

Mark: Uhhhhhh, I mean--

Michael: Or do you wanna get to Bradley fighting Tommy girl?

Mark: Well, a little bit because I was thinking about it when I was watching the movie and I was like, "So Louis is," or as Claudia says, "Louie."

Michael: "Louie"

Mark: He's, you know, he's the guy that sucks a dick and then spends the rest of sophomore year going like, (dudebro voice) "I'm not, I don't want the dick but I keep gettin' close to the dick! But I can't. I told myself no more dicks."

Michael: (dudebro voice) "You're not gay."

Mark: (dudebro voice) "You're not gay." (normal voice) Whereas Tom Cruise, whereas Lestat is like, "Hey, I have some dicks. Do you want some? Have a dick!"

(Sounds of crackling and bumping can be heard)

Nay: That noise is Michael pretending the mic is a dick that he's bumping into

Mark: That he's just fapping the dick in his face

Michael: (pretends to gag on the dick)

Brennan: (in the background) Oh my God

Mark: So Louis is masc gay closet culture kind of, and Lestat is chaotic femme energy. And Claudia's the angry millennial who's been like, left with nothing. I dunno. I got nothing guys. I dunno

Michael: There's an interesting- to kind of go back to Brad Pitt's character, how Lestat is like, (as Lestat) "I only go after evil people." (normal voice) And there's actually a really- I really like this scene where they discuss the older woman with the younger lover

Mark: (as the older woman) "I'm old enough to be your grandma!"

(A clip from the movie is played where Lestat encourages Louis to read the old woman's mind and ends with Lestat telling Louis that she blamed a slave for her husband's murder.)

Brennan: (sarcastically) Yaaaaay

Mark: So I guess Lestat's woke--

Michael: I mean, right?

Mark: For that time. I dunno

Michael: That's kind of my takeaway from that scene too

Mark: Oh, okay

Michael: A little bit, I guess. I mean we don't really know much outside of what he presents

Mark: The sequel, I remember The Vampire Lestat the book, it touching upon Lestat's ethos of "villains taste better".

Michael: Right. He essentially says that. There's actually an instance later in the movie where he is craving the taste of a creole and Brad Pitt's character is like, "Yankees are not your taste," and he goes, "Their democratic flavor doesn't suit my palate, Louis." And there's two ways to look at that. Is he like, "Ew, Yankees I don't even wanna taste them!" Or is he like, "I only wanna take out..."

Mark: Listen, I would love a sequel where Lestat is chomping on the Confederate army

Michael: Goes into The Federalist building?

Mark: Nay, your thoughts?

Michael: It's kind of a rough movie to watch

Nay: My thought: It reminds me of, I think I've talked before about doing microaggressions and privilege trainings and sometimes a question that gets asked is folks are like, "What's wrong with mentioning my dating preferences? Like I'm on Grindr and I'm like, 'No Asians, no whatever.'" Or people bring up, "I only date Black guys," or whatever the case may be and people not understanding why that's problematic or why that's just gross or why they should just not say that out loud, but that blows

Michael: Right

Mark: This is one of those instances, isn't it?

Nay: It's like (mocking Lestat) "I really have a taste for a Creole!" (normal voice) Excuse me?

Mark: You're like...

Nay: Like, fuck my life

Mark: "I was thinking pizza"

Nay: What does one say in response to that? 'Cause it's kind of like...

Michael: I didn't look at it that way but you're right, yeah

Nay: You're like, "Why's that?" Like you don't even actually want the answer. Like there's nothing following it to say

Michael: Right, you're cringing like, "What's he gonna say?"

Nay: Yeah

Michael: I don't even know what to say

Mark: I think my favorite segment in the movie is; because the movie has these stretches of like, "Oh! Oh God! Oh wow! Oh no!" Then these other stretches of gorgeousness and when they finally get to the Théâtre des Vampires, it's so beautiful. I love that it's a Grand Guignol kind of theatre, I mean it predates Grand Guignol theatre but at the same time it's clearly an homage to it or a lead up to it. I love those sequences. I think the sequence of the maiden being sort of like--

Michael: Murdered?

Mark: Murdered in front of the audience is still chilling, it's still beautifully directed

Michael: It really works

Mark: And my favorite part of that sequence? Is when Armand appears and he has that long black hair and he's in that sort of quasi-red kimono situation and I swear to God I was like, "Oh my God, is he gonna sing "Nothing Really Matters"?" It was amazing. Amazing. Antonio Banderas is clearly having such a good time. He's like, (as Antonio Banderas) "I have these nails…"

Nay: Okay? Living. Living his truth

Mark: Nails for days in this movie! Oh my God!

Nay: 'Cause you act different when you got nails like that

Mark: I bet

Michael: Oh yeah, you're like, (blows on his nails)

Nay: Your mannerisms are different, you got a attitude

Michael: Uh-huh

Nay: Let me get my nails done and see my attitude, okay?

Mark: Please do!

Michael: Makes me wanna get my nails done

Nay: Hell yeah

Mark: I know, right?

Nay: Oh yeah. Like lil' mama in Nightmare on Elm Street 2 when she put them nails on from the cereal box

Michael: (fey voice) Uh-huh, I see you queen!

Nay: Yes!

Michael: Mark, when you said that, I was dying

Mark: (fey voice) Oh look, it's my gay brother. Hiii

Michael: I dunno, I just found it very kind of cute, 'cause I bet they didn't know they were doing this back then, but the way Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt, they totally argue like an old married couple

Mark: Yeah

Nay: Mmm-hmm. Oh totally

Michael: And it reminds me of like, which show is it? I can't remember which show it is, but Brad Pitt is just like, "Whatever. I'm not listening to you." And Tom Cruise is insisting that Brad Pitt's character is going to listen to him and just like, it's just, I dunno. This is cute! And it's totally--

Mark: (as Lestat) "You're gonna eat these sex workers!"

Michael: This is not the movie's intention for me to be like, "What a cute couple!"

Nay: "What a cute couple!"

Mark: "Look, they had a baby!"

Michael: Well, speaking of a baby, that to me is like, that should have happened about forty-five minutes earlier because that was when the movie finally had energy to me, when Kirsten Dunst's character shows up.

Mark: Kirsten Dunst is amazing. And by the way, that family, I mean, I've seen families like that in West Hollywood where you're just like, "Ew."

Nay: Oh, absolutely

Michael: A nightmare. But there's an interesting thing there, too, with Brad Pitt's character, which I think is like another, "God, you're just a dick!" Is like, he doesn't want to feed on people the entire movie and then the first one he goes after is a nine-year old girl.

Nay: Yeah. How can you drain a poodle? What the fuck?

Michael: Right? Suddenly you're gonna go through with it and a child is gonna be your first kill? Dude.

Mark: I will say, particular moments like that, I remember not being tripped up on them in the book because there's really good--

Michael: There's probably a lot more foundation

Mark: There's a reason why the book was a phenomenon, you know? And I sort of gave up around Queen of the Damned, like I just could not. Her writing gets extremely, for me, ponderous and you know, like; but God knows she has her legions of fans but you know, that's the thing. The movie is great in sort of sweeping moments and yet I don't think that the script ever quite figures out ways to really make you understand. Because the scenes of dialogue about the meaning of what are we and what are we doing here, they come off as really ponderous and very like (snores)

Michael: Well they don't move the story forward. Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt are having the same conversation fifteen minutes into the movie that they're having fifty-five minutes into the movie

Nay: Just like the old-ass couple that they are. Y'all still bickering about that shit aren't you? Yeah, that makes complete sense

Michael: I mean it does, but at the same time I'm like, I'm still in the same exact space story-wise that we were forty minutes ago. Nothing's changed. Nothing's changed until Kirsten Dunst comes in

Mark: And steals the movie

Michael: Yeah! She really does steal the movie

Mark: And we need to bring up the Kristen Wiig vampire, the redhead in the catacombs. Who's just like, every time she's in a shot, she literally is just sort of seems to be leading, she never has a line practically. Or no, when she goes and kidnaps Kirsten Dunst she's like, (French accent) "Time to die, little one!"

Michael: Yeah, where's her mustache twirling?

Mark: But every other scene she's silent and they cut to her and she gives a look like,"Mmm-hmm." She's like, (southern accent) "Y'all been bad vampires."(normal voice) She's just- I dunno who she is, but she knew that she was like, "I am going to milk the living shit out of these moments."

Nay: Okay?

Mark: And I appreciated her, whoever you are

Michael: I mean it's great.

Michael: I was actually just laughing at my note going back to Kirsten Dunst. It just says, "A child to save a marriage" with five exclamation points. "This movie's so fucking gay."

Mark: Yeah

Nay: Yes

Michael: There is something interesting through the context of two vampires literally getting a child to try and save their relationship

Nay: Little anchor baby

Michael: Yeah. Playing dress up with her, you know, getting her fitted for clothes. She's the doll both these little boys wanted

Mark: And the moments where they show her growing up, where it's like, "Claudia I told you never in the house," and all this stuff. Those moments are great! That's where the movie comes to life

Michael: It is!

Mark: There's a verve to it, there's a sense that--

Michael: And again, Brad Pitt's making Tom Cruise be the bad guy with the kid! Another reason Brad Pitt's a dick in this movie

Mark: And look, Anne Rice adapted her own book and I think she was a little too in love with the existentialist sort of aspects of the story. I think that when it got into the character dynamics of, like you're talking about, a baby to save a marriage; had the story stuck a little bit more to reasons why the marriage wasn't working and not just about Brad Pitt just sort of moping in a corner about, I don't know

Michael: Hiding behind a candle?

Mark: Yeah, there was a lot. And I know that is the story. It's, I dunno, I think there's maybe a, I think there's maybe an endemic problem with the adaptation is just like you can't fix that

Michael: The domestic aspect of the movie is when it's at its strongest

Mark: Yes

Michael: When it's exploring a family, whether it's traditional or nontraditional. But the moments that it starts getting, its heart starts beating a little faster and starts going somewhere it always would stop to me. It would be infused with energy and then we'd be watching Kirsten Dunst play the piano for five minutes. Or like, you know what I mean?

Mark: I like those parts

Michael: I mean they're great, but at the same time I just felt like the entire movie is filled with stall after stall, you know what I mean? That's building to the climax, and that's another thing that watching it this week, leading up to this is like, I think you might have given me this note on a script I once gave you to read for me. Thank you, by the way. It's stuck with me ever since and I was like, you can't let the audience be ahead of the characters in the movie and I felt like I was ahead of the characters in the movie. And granted I have seen it before, but looking at it in that context, I was like, "This movie is so clearly, you know where it's going at every turn." And just like, why do you care? You know what I mean? And that's what I felt myself while watching the movie like, "Why do I care about any of these people? Except for Kirsten Dunst."

Mark: I mean, sometimes you want the audience to know for suspense reasons, but not in this case. I dunno.

Michael: True. Yeah. I dunno. It's a beautiful film and I think it's, there's some coolness to it, but maybe it sounds like I'm shitting on it, but--

Mark: I think my favorite part was sort of in the end in the gallery, when it's basically Devil Wears Prada, where like, I mean basically Brad Pitt throws his phone in a fountain. Because like, Armand is like, "We're gonna go here, we're gonna go there." And Brad Pitt's like, (as Anne Hathaway) "You know what? I don't want this life." And Armand is like, "Whaaaaat?"

 

Michael: "What?"

 

Mark: And yeah. And then he just walks away

Michael: That's so true

Mark: And they're in Paris. And yeah, it's, the end is Andy and Miranda Priestly calling it quits

Michael: Where's Stanley Tucci in all of this?

Mark: Who is Stanley Tucci in this?

Michael: Is he Armand? No

Nay: Anne Hathaway

Michael: Anne Hathaway's Kirsten Dunst, right? Or is Kirsten Dunst Emily Blunt?

Mark: Lestat is Stanley Tucci

Michael: Oh my God, it's totally true

Mark: It's true

Michael: And who's Adrian Grenier?

Mark: I dunno

Michael: One of the rats?

Nay: Oooh! Wow

Michael: That was mean

Mark: I was his stunt double on a movie once

Michael: Were you really?

Brennan: What?

Michael: On what movie?

Mark: On a James Toback movie.

Michael: What movie?

Mark: James Toback. Yeah, gross. It was called Harvard Man with Sarah Michelle Gellar

Michael: Oh yeah, and wasn't Megan Mulally in that as well?

Mark: I have no idea I never actually watched it

Michael: Oh that's funny

Mark: Ooof. Boy

Brennan: You did stunts? Did you have to do anything cool? Fall off of a building?

Mark: I had to fall over a bike rack. It's a livin'

Michael: That's really interesting, Mark

Mark: Ah, yeah. Did not expect to talk about that tonight

Nay: Do you know something I didn't think about as a kid watching vampire movies and that I've thought about when we talked about The Hunger and then when we watched Interview with the Vampire, is that I didn't consider people being stuck emotionally where they were when they turned and that's like the true horror of it to me

Michael: Yeah

Nay: The Hunger, we were talking about people being the discarded lover and then having to live in the attic for eternity with the rest of them

Michael: (softly) Oh God!

Nay: And for Brad Pitt, obviously I want for him to be in misery forever as a slaveowner, but the unrest that comes when I think about being trapped in a loop of your pity

Michael: Yeah

Nay: And I'm not hating on pity. I love a pity party, it's my favorite party. But, God--

Mark: R.S.V.P.!

Nay: R.S.V.P. bitch! But also the like, relief that comes when you're able to work through something and you wake up and it stings less, it's just softened in some way? Yeah

Mark: And that's the thing, his- what you're describing, I mean, and describing that beautifully, is not, it's not apparent. The movie could have used that sense of; as opposed to just sort of--

Nay: Him hiding behind a candle

Mark: Yeah. This kind of vague--

Michael: (as Louis) "You can't see me. I'm behind this candle."

Mark: You know, I dunno. It's like he is like, (as Louis) "I tried a new meal delivery service and I don't like it, and I thought things would change when I did this and they didn't." It's like--

Nay: Hello Fresh sponsor us! I'm gonna try Blue Apron

Mark: There's a movie called Ganja and Hess, have you ever--?

Nay: Ganja and Hess?

Mark: Yes. A Bill Gunn movie, from '73, starring Duane Jones who you might remember as the handsome leading man of Night of the Living Dead (1968)

Michael: Oh, yeah

Mark: And it is a Black vampire movie and it is so good and we need to watch it

Nay: Oh, it looks so good

Michael: Yeah, let's do it

Mark: And we definitely need to watch it just to wash away the sins of Interview with the Vampire, I think

Michael: Well, the thing that stinks about Interview with the Vampire too, is that the best character in the movie is a woman, or little girl, and the whole time I'm watching the movie, as soon as her character's introduced, I kept telling myself, "This is the movie I want to see. I want to follow this character." 'Cause she's so playful--

Mark: Her and Madeleine?

Michael: Yeah well, they do cool things with her that they just, they kind of touch upon, and then it goes away. Like using her as bait to get people. That's really great, but they only show it once, you know what I mean? There's some really cool things. Teaching her to play the piano over years so they could go into families, play for family and take out a family. I'm like, "I wanna see you take this family out!"

Nay: The Groundhog Day turn

Michael: Yeah. Those are the kind of things that I'm like, "This is the movie I wanna see."

Mark: Yeah

Michael: You know, maybe younger me appreciated the movie for what it was, and that it was like gothic horror and it was kind of like eroticism and those kind of things. But as an older and a more mature person, I was identifying with the nine-year old more than anything, you know what I mean? And I was identifying with her purity. And I was also identifying with like, Nay, that was a thought I had the entire time for her was, "Is her brain stuck at nine? Can she develop a brain as a human, learn things as an adult? Or is she stuck at the mental capacity of a nine-year old?" But then there's like cool things with her where she's learning the history of the places they're going so she can take advantage of that while she's there to feed and stuff and I'm just like, "This is the movie I want!"

Mark: I never got the sense that Claudia was stuck at nine

Michael: Mentally and yeah

Mark: I think the power of Kirsten Dunst's performance is that she actually seems to convey a forty-something, fifty-something, I lost count

Michael: Yeah. She ages essentially. And her frustration

Mark: She acts her little heart out

Michael: She's so great

Mark: I mean, bless

Michael: When she cuts her hair

Mark: She's great

Michael: That scene's amazing. I'm just like I dunno. I just felt like these are the things I want and then we're going back to man behind the candle

Mark: You know, I feel like if Jeff Nelson, friend of the pod Jeff Nelson was here, you know, he would be like, "Yes, absolutely agree a hundred percent. But remember, in 1994, we had this and the show right here," and so it's like--

Michael: Yeah, and that's what we do with this show, right?

Mark: You know, we have to sort of, what's the expression? "Take what you like, but leave the rest."

Michael: Well, you've got three A-list stars gayin' it up in a mainstream Hollywood film and it's just like, do you laud it for that, or do you, like you know Nay, I will never forget what you said earlier in this show, like one of our first episodes, about like, looking at the Bible, like, so you don't look at the Bible in today's lens? I forget what you said, but it was perfect how you're like, you know, "We adapt. And just because it said it in the time doesn't mean it's not wrong now," y'know?

Mark: Yeah

Michael: And that's what I think the beauty of this show can be, is that we kinda do tend to hold films to task because we change. Things change, you know?

Mark: Well sure. But you know, we get to have the platform to say, point to different things in movies and say, "More of this, please. And a lot less of this," you know?

Michael: Yeah, that's the fun of this

Mark: I dunno

Michael: And it's been very nice doing the show too, in that sense too, because I get a lot of feedback from people who say, "I have never once thought of a movie that way. I'm gonna go watch it again." Which is super cool. Especially straight allies who will say that. Like, "I never once thought to look at that movie from that point of view," you know? And I think a lot of it is, it's great that people are actually reacting that way.

Nay: Hell yeah

Michael: So toot-toot, Queerwolf

Nay: We love y'all

Mark: Do you guys think that a lot of people even remotely think about the slave ownership aspect of this movie when they remember this movie?

Nay: I had forgotten

Michael: Same

Brennan: Yeah, me too

Michael: One hundred percent forgot

Nay: When I was young, I know that there's like impact when those things happen 'cause I would often argue with people around me, like. "No actually, that's not like just a casual reference. We're actually talking about slavery." Like it's okay for me to have feelings about that, even if it's just a movie, even if whatever the case may be, like we're building a story from it. But as a grownup, I have so little space for… yeah.

Michael: And there's a way--

Mark: You're like (as Nay) "I don't even have the words right now."

Michael: Well, there's a way to tell the story without it.

Nay: Yeah

Michael: It's not really integral to the plot whatsoever, you know what I mean?

Nay: People just love- it gives them like, not the feelings that I have, it just makes people feel so nostalgic about southern culture and plantations and the fuckin' moss hanging from the trees and--

Michael: Just think. This movie was only made twenty-four years ago and no one said boo about that aspect of the film, you know what I mean?

Mark: Because, because--

Michael: Slavery was bad in 1994, people!

Nay: Yeah

Mark: But the idea that a, that a lead character who was a slaveowner--

Michael: The protagonist

Mark: Yes, the protagonist of a film. That we would, I mean it was literally taken for granted as just like, "Oh yeah, and he's real sad, but oh, isn't he hot?"

Nay: People like empathizing with him

Michael: Yeah

Nay: Like yeah, I don't have any room for that

Mark: Sure

Nay: But obviously I, as a young person watching it, I was like, "Sexy vampires".

Michael: Yeah

Mark: Yeah

Nay: Yeah

Mark: This episode in certain ways is like a big old pile of "I don't care."

Michael: Well it's a hard movie to discuss. I mean, there's the nostalgia factor where you're like, "I liked it when I was younger," so there's part of you that still does. For me now, watching it, I'm like, "This movie's boring." The quickest way for me to put it is, besides all the problematic stuff, it's just a meandering mess to me

Mark: I think it has certain technical aspects that are, that I think are still kind of stunning

Michael: Yeah. I mean some of the effects, like the, what was the one I noticed? Shit, I thought I wrote it down. There was some really cool effects work, obviously, with Stan Winston...

Mark: Very much so

Michael: But I can't think of the specifics off the top of my head. I thought that kind of stuff was great. I thought, I mean the set design was gorgeous

Nay: Oh yeah

Mark: Mmm-hmm

Michael: The costume design was gorgeous. It's a beautiful film. And there's probably part of me thinks you know, if you sat me in a room with nine other gay guys and this movie came on? It would probably be a riot to watch

Mark: Yeah

Nay: I thought you were gonna say circle jerk

Mark: Whew!

Michael: That was implied

Brennan: Okay, where can we find everyone?

Mark: You can find me under the table now that we're talking about The Skin I Live In. Ohhhh, fuck!

Michael: You can find him grabbing tissues

Nay: Oh. My. God.

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