Episode 14: "Frederica, Queen of the Desert" (w/ Katya and Sam Wineman!)

''It’s the moment you’ve all been waiting for… This week, the queerwolves are discussing the notorious NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 2: FREDDY’S REVENGE, but we couldn’t do it without help! The gang is joined by filmmaker Sam Wineman (THE QUIET ROOM) and drag superstar Katya (RUPAUL’S DRAG RACE)! Michael reveals his school bus kink, Nay gets compassion fatigue, Mark dreams of Palm Springs, Sam plays outfield, and Katya is very worried about the birds. Plus, in Tea Time, we sip on SUSPIRIA (again), CAN YOU EVER FORGIVE ME, CAM, and Dexter dreams. ''

Trivia
"This week we're comin' at you from Jesse's bedroom closet, where things are getting super steamy and sweaty during this rowdy game of Probe. Probe. New from Parker Brothers."

Future host Sam Wineman's first episode, first episode with two guests. Withnail and I is one of Mark's all-time favorite movies.

Spoilers for Suspiria (2018)

Topics brought up during the episode: The Quiet Room, RuPaul's Drag Race season 7, RuPaul's Drag Race All-Stars season 2, Searching, Melissa McCarthy, Richard E. Grant, Lee Israel, The Happytime Murders, profile of Melissa McCarthy in New York Times, Hill House episode 6, [https://screenrant.com/nightmare-elm-street-freddys-revenge-behind-scene-facts/#:~:text=1%20Kim%20Myers%20Was%20Cast,part%20because%20of%20her%20looks. Jesse's girlfriend looking like Meryl Streep], Sam's holiday horrors for Fangoria, Sam's Christmas album Right In Front of My Christmas, Friendster, MySpace, Top 8, Julia Roberts on Instagram, Kennedy the dog

Tea Time
Nay: Stopped watching The Office (US) to watch Dexter seasons 1-8 again, for the third time

Sam: Cam

Katya: Suspiria (2018)

Mark: Can You Ever Forgive Me?

Michael: finished The Haunting of Hill House

Shady Summaries
Katya: (read from her actual monogrammed diary) A wet suburban boy can't decide if kissing a female girl is worse than being embroiled in a demonic possession murder plot. That was the gist of it for me.

Sam: "The gayest horror movie ever," said your straight friends

Mark: We'll get to that

Nay: Didn't prepare one, doesn't want to do one off the cuff

Mark: It's Boy Erased but now with one hundred percent more undead pedophile

Michael: One, two, Freddy's coming through you…

Mark: Or coming in you. (beat) Sorry

Pride Float
Michael: Katya, let's start with you. Do you think it gets a Pride float today, and do you think it gets a Pride float in 1985?

Katya: Absolutely. But they're very different. So, in 1985, you'd have like, a big muscle-y version of Jesse, and then, like over the course of the parade, it'd be like Freddy kind of clawing his way out, but it's papier-mâché. And then you'd have the same thing now, but it would catch on fire, and like right at the beginning of the parade, and then everybody would be like, "Huh. That's a shame. But wait a minute. Oh, that movie sucked." Something like that

Michael: Sam?

Sam: A hundred percent yes on both and this is why. Eighty-five would be, I mean, yes eighty-five it was some visibility because we even were like, "Yes! Give me some representation!"

Michael: We're still talking about it today. Especially in a big mainstream studio franchise

Sam: Yes. That there was something there. And the now float would hopefully be just an ode to Grady. I want a pleather comforter, I want tiny green shorts. Everyone on it is oiled up...

Michael: He's standing there, flexing his abs in front of Freddy

Sam: He's pantsing all of his friends, that's it.

Michael: Shoving stuff in his mouth

Katya: We could have him dancing with a mouthful of food

Sam: Oh my God, talk to me

Mark: Pushing his grandmother down a flight of stairs

Katya: Over and over and over. She just climbs back up

Michael: All the food is phallic. "Do it again, honey!"

Mark: She just climbs back up

Brennan: He really does live in that grey area between spit and swallow, though

Michael: Oooooh

Brennan: He just stays there

Katya: What did you just say?

Brennan: Well his mouth's constantly full of food, but it never goes anywhere, he doesn't deposit it anywhere

Katya: Gotcha

Nay: Gargling, just...

Brennan: Oh, okay

Michael: Savoring the taste

Mark: And another podcast with a parental advisory

Michael: I'm always a huge fan of Nay's Pride floats. Does it get a Pride float, Nay?

Nay: It does get a Pride float, in 1985. And then now, it gets one, but it's really just a bus that gives gay people free rides during Pride

Katya and Mark: To Palm Springs

Nay: Maybe you don't get bus boners, but you probably will

Michael: It's doing gay community service?

Nay: Yeah. Yeah.

Michael: It's doing Pride community service

Nay: Like the WeHo Trolley

Katya: Oh my God! You know what I just realized?

Nay: What?

Katya: My version of that hell bus is like a white girl bachelorette drag show = party bus

Nay: Yeah, that is hell

Katya: I would rather be knifed to death by a serial killer

Mark: You drive it off the road. (screechy white girl voice) "Driver!"

Katya: "No! Anything but this!"

Nay: Please run over me

Michael: And is it bachelorettes from The Bachelorette, that makes it even worse, right?

Nay: Okay, meta

Katya: Or those two bitches in the beginning

Michael: And they're all named Nikki and all the various ways you can spell it: Nicki, Nikki, Nicky, Nickie. Realtor, dental hygienist

Nay: Wasn't there two women on The Bachelorette Philippines who ended up together?

Katya: Yeah. They found love in a hopeless place.

Michael: Pride float, Mark?

Mark: In 1985, I would say yes, but my version of it would be just Freddy stabbing Ronald Reagan to death, in front of the National Institute of Health

Nay: Yes!

Mark: While Nancy watches.

Michael: And someone's shoving drugs in her mouth?

Mark: I Madeline Kahn Mrs. White hate the Reagans so much

Michael: I know you do, yeah

Mark: So in that sense, yes, it would get a Pride float in Eighty-five. And today, yeah, I think I just wanna watch Grady in short-shorts kicking his grandmother down the stairs over and over again. While eating a fucking hero. Eating a hoagie

Katya: They could do, you know, the magicians with the doves, they could have exploding birds

Michael: I don't know why, I thought you were going to say that it would just be Grady's grandma shooting out of cannons.

Katya: Oh, that too!

Michael: Okay, my Pride float would be, in 1985, it would just be Lisa on the ground crying as she stares up at Jesse. And then in 2018, it would be Lisa crying on the ground as she stares at a picture of Jesse. Still damaged thirty-three years later. Or my other version...

Mark: Or out and proud lesbian

Michael: I was just gonna say, sitting on a float with her wife of thirty years, happy, her children around her

Mark: Wiser

Michael: Wiser

Mark: Published author, many times

Michael: Yep

Mark: Tenured at Sarah Lawrence

Michael: I was just gonna say, tenured somewhere. Writing her ninth novel.

Mark: She's getting her PhD in puppetry arts

Michael: She's spending weekends building a cabin in Colorado. She's got a great life, right?

Mark: Jesse who?

Nay: Yeah

Michael: She named her first daughter Jesse, because they're still friends

Katya: Well, they had a very similar energy

Michael: Mmm-hmm. They realized they're brother and sister at the end of the day

Mark: Wow, okay

Michael: No, spiritually. In the family.

Quotes
Mark: I remember Probe from Parker Brothers, that's how old I am

Michael: Really?

Mark: Yes, I remember it. Don't you remember walking through the board games in Toys "R" Us and seeing Probe? No?

Nay: I've never seen Probe

Michael: Yeah

Mark: Okay, just me. Moving on

Katya: I found something interesting. From your bio, Sam, it sounds like you're very poor, but your name basically means, "I'm a drunk."

Sam: Y-yeah

Katya: Sam like, "Sam I am a wine man. I'm a drunk man. It's sad."

Sam: It all adds up

Mark: It's from the Polish "wino"

Nay: ...I would just like to announce that I was really attracted to Dexter this last go-round, so

Michael: I can see that

Katya: Not the first two?

Nay: Not the first two

Katya: What the fuck?

Nay: I know. I know. Now that I see it, I don't know what was wrong with me, but

Mark: The first time is because you're a fan, the second time around is because you're a stan. The third time is for research, so. Y'know.

Michael: Michael C. Hall, is that his name? I wasn't sexually attracted to him during Six Feet Under, but during Dexter, hell yeah. I was like, "Murder me."

Nay: I was more like, "Murder anyone who wants to fuck with me," honestly. "That you love me."

Michael: Okay. That's different than me

Nay: Yeah

Nay: Every time I watch Dexter, the same as every time I watch The Walking Dead, I always have dreams about the show. And so, my dreams this round of watching Dexter were out of control. Honestly.

Michael: Can you describe one?

Nay: Yeah. I would literally; okay one time I'm on the back of a truck, maybe the ice truck, don't know.

Mark: Mmmm-hmmm

Nay: On the back of a huge empty truck and Dexter's literally behind me sawing someone into pieces, and he's just like, "Baby I love you so much, like i hope this person never fucks with you ever again."

Michael: Awwwww

Nay: When I woke up I was like, I don't even remember what that person did, I don't remember

Mark: Was this The Bachelor?

Nay: Right?

Michael: Instead of a rose, it's a limb

Nay: And I'm like, "Oh my God, Dexter!' Yeah. In theory I'm so attracted to you. In practice we probably can't fuck, but you know."

Michael: That's what fantasy's for

Katya: I'm sure you could make it work

Nay: You know, I always think that about men and then no

Mark: Well not with that attitude, Nay!

Katya: It's that attention to detail

Nay: It's true

Michael: That's so true

Nay: It's a very good point

Katya: The only thing is, (Suspiria 2018 is) thirty minutes too long

Mark: Wrong

Katya: It's, okay, I mean, I don't have, like my attention span is--

Michael: Just gonna put my headphones down and watch this play out

Katya: My attention span is not the best, but like...

Michael: (whispers) I'm with you

Katya: It's so long.

Michael: It's really long

Katya: It's really aggressive in its length. But I'm a big fan of Pina Bausch so it's like seeing Tilda Swinton do a full-on crazy witch version of Pina Bausch is so cool. But I think it was a weird flex for her to do that, she wanted to show her old German ding-a-ling, do you know what I mean? Like, enough about that. It was all just leading up to this naked doctor and we could have just, I mean, we didn't need all that

Mark: Agree to disagree

Nay: Whoa

Katya: Do you like every single thing about it, like all the backstory, all the political, like all that stuff?

Mark: I was there for the Fassbender freakout of it all. People just have to say the word, "Suspiria," lately and my seat's wet. I Love it. I love it so much.

Katya: Well I didn't dislike portions of it, but I was just like--

Michael: (laughing) This is amazing!

Mark: No! No no no no! I think it's a legitimate criticism

Katya: Please stop touching me, by the way

(Everyone laughs)

Mark: (mock angrily) Look at me. Look at me!

Katya: I don't wanna look at you, but no; but this is, um, this is half of the. okay, they have the titles that come on and I was like, "Oooh, not even halfway through. Ohhhh. Okay, it's fine. You know, I don't have to pee, it's fine." But it was; some of those scenes were so long

Mark: I know

Katya: Like when Olga gets ripped, spoilers or whatever, she, it just goes on and on and on. You're like, "This is fantastic"

Mark: I think it's absolutely a legitimate criticism to, you know, to discuss the length or whether or not sort of the historical thematics, you know, are sort of successful. I don't know. I was just there. I was just in love from beginning to end, but there's a lot of detractors certainly, and I understand why you would have issues. But you did appreciate it obviously

Katya: And I stayed to the bitter end, because my geeky friend was like, (geeky voice) "Gotta stay 'till the end! There's something at the end!"

Mark: Mmmm, yeah. Dakota.

Katya: After all the credits

Michael: I love Dakota Johnson

Sam: It was her best role since How to be Single, which I saw five times in theaters

Michael: How to be Single?

Sam: Yeah

Michael: Good for you

Katya: I didn't know she was in that

Sam: First time I was in a relationship and he dumped me that night, and I went back four more times

Michael: Because you took him to the movie?

Nay: Yeah, you're like, "This is how to be single. This is how to do it."

Michael: I've loved (Dakota) since day one. I will watch Fifty Shades of Grey because of her

Katya: I didn't know she was in those movies. I just recently learned that

Michael: So great

Mark: She was the only person that made those movies remotely watchable. And my favorite is in the second one. I've actually talked about this before, this is how gay I am. Where there's a scene in the sequel where Jamie Dornan like shows up and she's getting ready for a party because they're rich and stupid and that's what they do, and you know. And she's putting on a string of pearls and he's like, (deep voice) "I have a present for you." (normal voice) And she's like, (femme voice) "What is it?" (normal voice) And he pulls out like this gigantic buttplug and she's like (femme voice) "You are not putting that in my butt." Literal dialogue.

Michael: We need to work that impression into every episode because I love it

Mark: Hey, listen. One day you'll get me drunk and I'll tell you about the evening I spent with what's-her-name, who wrote the books, EL James?

Michael: No kidding

Sam: Wow. That's the bonus episode I am here for

Mark: It is a whole story, I just wanna make sure I--

Michael: Does anyone have any vodka?!

Mark: Oh my God. She's very nice. She's very nice and very wild. She's very funny.

Michael: ...death was a very central theme (of The Haunting of Hill House)

Katya: I didn't get that

Michael: I really credit the show with me really finally realizing my Dad was dead. Like it had been six, seven months since he had passed away, and of course I know he's dead, and see signs of him everywhere, and have dealt with it in ways, but it wasn't until (finishing episode six) that I was like, "Holy shit. My Dad's gone." But it was so amazing, 'coz I needed it. And so, like, I left. I went to bed and i woke up the next morning like with this new acceptance of my world and I can't remember the last time a show or a film has done that to me

Mark: Yeah, I hated it, too

Michael: I would love if Mike Flanagan was here, or Kate Siegel. There's such a great queer representation in the show. I mentioned that on Twitter and someone actually gave me a lot of pushback about how she had "straight panic", which I don't really see

Mark: Wait, who had straight panic?

Michael: Kate Siegel's character

Mark: Oh

Michael: 'Cause she had that moment where you think she kisses--

Mark: Was she Theo?

Michael: Theo, yes. But I don't know. Anyone feel free to chime in. It's really hard for me to put into words because I'm still really digesting it weeks later, and like what it means

Katya: (southern accent) "Well I thought it was trash." (normal voice) I actually watched it right after I saw The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, which I really loved, I really loved

Michael: So different

Mark: That's really great

Katya: But I didn't like Hill House that much. Like, I loved chunks of it, but then some episodes I felt would just go on and on and on. Although, it has scared the shit out of me

Michael: Yes!

Katya: That fucking bent neck bitch is--

Michael: I believe that was the real name of the character

Katya: Like I was, oh, it was like, I had to kind of look away from the television. And there was a night recently where I tucked myself into bed and I said to myself, "If you open your eyes and look at the doorway, she's gonna be there." And I convinced myself, and I wouldn't open my eyes. I felt like I was in third grade. It was so; there was some really, really great...

Michael: So the show actually did affect you?

Katya: Oh, no no no! Yeah, it did affect me! But yeah, I dunno

Michael: (mockingly) "But I wasn't scared! The show didn't scare me!"

Katya: I liked, I thought it was too bleak

Michael: It is very bleak

Katya: So bleak

Michael: But I think maybe I connected with that, because I've been wrapping myself in a lot of fluff this year because of what's going on in the world and I've talked about that a lot here. How I want, like, digestible, happy, chill stuff to watch

Katya: Herbie: Fully Loaded?

Michael: Yeah, on repeat, you know? Like, "Go get the car, Lindsay!" But I dunno, I think maybe I needed it.

Katya: I think (Hell House) did end in a way which isn't bleak, which is nice.

Michael: Yeah, yeah

Katya: But it was a fuckin' Debbie Downer for some like, long stretches of it

Michael: I liked it so much

Mark: I mean, for me it was, and I fully understand why it would affect you. And I'm glad that the show is out there...

Michael: Different people shower differently, right?

Mark: Yeah, exactly. I'm glad that the show has had that kind of reach and has really touched a lot of people

Michael: It has, yeah

Mark: And that's what I love about Mike Flanagan is that when he is elegant, he is el-e-gant,  like it's just he; one of my favorite things about Hill House was that they didn't fucking use music all the time. And if there's one thing that I hate...

Michael: Episode six? I don't think he used it at all

Mark: If there's one thing I really hate in horror, especially horror television, it's the idea that you have to score the shit out of it as though the audience is too stupid to pay attention and to like; it actually dissipates tension, it makes me crazy. And this show so frequently did it right, and it really got me, often. But like Gerald's Game which also has these like amazing stretches where you're just breathless

Michael: Yeah, silence?

Mark: Horrifying and truly, truly effective. Mike Flanagan also really loves sweetness. Sometimes to the point I'm just like, "Oh my God, dude. Relax!"

Michael: Maybe it's like one candy bar away from...

Mark: And for me, the last episode of Haunting of Hill House, kind of undid it for me. I was in it, and then I was like, (grumbles) "Oh God, this is so sweet."

Michael: I would agree with you that the last episode might be the weakest of the entire season, in that sense. But. Again, I loved it so much. And I think you hit a really good point about music. I think Chelsea Stardust, the director, has mentioned this to me. I think it was her that mentioned this to me a couple times, as a director some of the biggest choices she makes as a director, I think this was her, was when not to use music. Like using music is so key, but on top of that is, "When don't I use it?"

Mark: Watch yourself when you're watching a horror movie. The second a horror movie's going and the strings pull in and someone's about to go to open a door, you know what you do? You check your fucking phone. Because you don't have to pay attention because you know the music's gonna tell me when it's time to be scared. And it's so, I dunno. It makes me nuts

Michael: It makes me nuts in trailers when it's like, "Bwom bom bom bom!" the whole time and I'm just like, "Relax. Relax."

Mark: I think the thing in trailers I really hate is that trick of the strobing and it's like, "Wub-bububub." I fucking hate that. Stop it! Find another trick

Katya: Let's go back to The Matrix one, you know? That was a fun one. More back bend

Mark: Bullet time? Is that it?

Katya: Yes!

Michael: Remember when they used that in Scary Movie 2?

Mark: Of course (Nightmare on Elm Street 2: Freddy's Revenge) is a movie we always want to talk about. The thing is, is that because it has such a sort of kind of legendary position within sort of, like, queer horror discussions, we were like, we were loath to go there right away. We figured we'd get there eventually, but then when we found out you guys wanted to talk about it, we were like--

Michael: Hell yeah!

Mark: Now we gotta do it

Katya: Well, it's either this one or Remains of the Day and ugh...

Mark: Too scary

Katya: If I have to talk about Anthony Hopkins again

Michael: This time at least it's not to the police

Katya: I know

Michael: Allegedly

Katya: How long is (Withnail and I)?

Mark: It's twenty minutes

Katya: Oh good, perfect

Mark: Just, you know, a hard in, hard out

Katya: It's again three chunks

Michael: This (movie) was a pick by Sam and Katya

Mark: Sorry, America

Michael: We should tell our audience: We've been a little reluctant to do this movie because it's kind of expected, and we'll get the trailer in a second. But we're doing it with you guys and that's super exciting. Because I feel like only you two could bring a fresh take and a fresh voice to the discussion, because a lot of it has been discussed before

Katya: But have you heard, I mean, nobody's released around (inaudible) from a Russian Orthodox after Easter kind of perspective, do you know what I mean? I feel that adds a kind of whole stained glass window into...

Mark: Also, you guys being nude just adds a whole--

Katya: You don't think the wetness is too much?

Mark: Well, y'know

Michael: It's a good thing the seats are upholstered the way they are, we can just wipe them off

Sam: I asked Michael a while ago, "Can we pick anything?" And he's like, "I'll do anything except for Nightmare on Elm Street 2." And then I called Katya, and I said, "What should we watch?"

Michael: True story

Sam: (to Katya) And you said

Katya: I'm so basic.

Michael: I think I texted you back, "That is literally the only way I will do that as an episode"

Sam: That is what you said

Michael: Yep.

Brennan: I did want to say, Mark, in Fifty Shades Darker, it's actually love beads and not a buttplug. So I just don't want people to get mad at you on Twitter

Mark: Oh my God. That changes everything. Yeah, I would really hate for Fifty Shades Twitter to get on me

Freddy in the trailer for NOES 2: Daddy can't help you now

Mark: No, he sure can't

Mark: I don't think we've ever listened to an entire trailer. Eventually we're like, (faux chipper) "Time for the trailer! ...oh, okay, you know what never mind."

Brennan: I can see you getting palpably about thirty, forty seconds in

Michael: It's literally forty-five seconds long and at second twenty-two we're all like, "Is it over?"

Mark: Because you know what it's like when you're just listening to it, it sounds like you're on hold, but your call--

Michael: You called 777-FILM?

Mark: Yeah. Didn't Freddy have a 900 number?

Michael: He did, yeah

Mark: And it's basically...

Katya: I think that's Wells Fargo's hold music these days. It also sounded like a Drag Race intro. Like, "I'm not here to make friends!"

Mark: "She's not friendly. She's not kind. (as Freddy) Kill for me!"

 

Katya: "She came to slay!"

Michael: I still think if they do a Nightmare on Elm Street sequel, Tilda (Swinton) as Freddy. Give me a female Freddy Kreuger. Frederica Kreuger.

Katya: Frederica….

Mark: Frieda Kreuger

Michael: Frieda?

Sam: I mean, female Freddy Kreuger, though, Prom Night II: Hello Mary Lou? Just saying. I live for that movie.

Mark: Now available on Shudder

Michael: People are saying give me Robert Englund. I would love that, but--

Mark: Tilda. She just eats chicken wings and kills teens.

Michael: She's got 'em on her razors, just sticking out

Mark: And a caftan. Just a Christmas sweater, but a caftan

Katya: Also, (Lisa) looked to me like she was like forty, or thirty-five percent Jennifer Grey and then sixty-five percent Meryl Streep

Michael: Oh my God, it's so true!

Katya: So yeah, it was just like, it was strange

Michael: Yeah, it is. It's very strange. We'll get there

Michael: (NOES 2) was released less than a year (after the original)

Katya: Less than a year?

Michael: Yeah, less than a year

Katya: Wow

Michael: It was like eight days shy of the actual, like one-year anniversary

Mark: Well it doesn't show at all

Michael: At all! And I bring that up because obviously, it shows

Michael: I find it very fascinating that (the movie) opens with a dream sequence. And for some reason Jesse here is presented as like this stereotypical Eighties nerd

Mark: I think the opening is a metaphor for the entire movie. It's, a Nightmare on Elm Street movie is beginning and so far, everything is fine. And then the bus-slash-movie is literally driven off the road, into the desert, towards what I can only assume is Palm Springs

Michael: Like hanging on a cliff

Mark: Like, just, homo town. Like that's where the movie's going. That's it. And so, I just feel like the movie announces itself right off the bat

Michael: I mean that's a really good way to look at it, because I didn't look at it that way at all

Mark: It's like Priscilla, Queen of the Desert

Katya: Yeah, yeah, you're right. It is like this, Frederica, Queen of the Desert. I love the bus. That has stuck with me my whole life, like that whole bat out of hell thing. And I thought it was so funny that they had to like, you know, "Oh, we gotta get away from the guy with the claws, but oh the bus is gonna tip!" So it was go forward and go back. I wish that went on for like fifteen minutes. And then it's like this seesaw...

Michael: And then it just says, "The End"?

Katya: (groans as if on either side of a seesaw)

Michael: That's really funny because it does kind of tell you, "This is pretty high camp. This movie is going to be campy." But the thing I, watching it this time that stuck out for me, is that (Jesse) has his two bullies with him. And like his subconscious is almost like. I took it as his subconscious trying to wipe out two of his tormentors

Mark: Wait, you mean those two girls that are dressed like the Limited Too or something?

Michael: Yeah. That call the bus driver "driver"? What are they, in a limo?

Nay: And they're like, (white girl voice), "Driver."

Mark: They look at (Jesse) and they're like, (as one of the girls) "That one's for you, he's a live one." I was like...

Michael: Yeah, they're like making fun of Jesse

Mark: And I was like, "You're fourteen!"

Michael: Right. Go to your Just the Ten of Us audition. Get outta here. Nay, do you have any thoughts on the bus scene?

Nay: I was just like, how is everyone not losing their teeth? When I see buses bouncing around like that, I always think about this kid that was on the bus with me millions of years ago, not that long ago. But the bus hit a bump, like no bump like anything they hit out in the desert, and literally came down and busted their teeth out.

Mark: Oh shit

Nay: And so the whole time I'm just like, "Everybody's got their teeth still?"

Michael: Buses were so dangerous when we were kids

Nay: Buses are so dangerous

Katya: They were in the back of the bus and it's going--

Nay: Yes, the back

Katya: Their heads would have been gone through the ceiling

Nay: Yes. Absolutely

Katya: Wow

Michael: Sam, do you have any thoughts?

Sam: I'm just here for it. I love that the bus is going two miles an hour for the first ten minutes, like the whole opening credits. It's like they're not getting anywhere

Michael: Right. They're going down Orange Grove Drive in Hollywood

Sam: Oh, a hundred percent. And then all of a sudden we're a miniature in the middle of a pit, and there's no transition between then and when everything falls out. And I'm just screaming, because this is what I want in a film. It's giving me everything

Mark: I just love that most of the kids, like they know to get off the bus before. They're like, (as one of the kids) "Oh! This is my stop!" Before they go to like Hellfire Abyss Lane. It's just the three kids left who are like, "We live in this really shitty part of town."

Sam: Kids all in their late twenties

Mark: Like Land of the Lost

Michael: I could not just get over the (as one of the girls), "Driver, stop! Driverrr!" And I'm like, "Ugh. Call him something else? Maybe he'll listen to you if you're not treating him like a chauffeur?"

Mark: I still think the seesaw aspect, I would really love it if someone would supercut it somehow back and forth so it just goes

Nay: (seesaw squeaking sounds)

Michael: Whoever did that, I think (Mark) sent it to me, of The Exorcist but it was to a Carly Rae Jepsen song, I want that person to do it with the seesaw

Michael: I'm gonna go in chronological order if that's okay with you guys

Nay: Mmm, no

Michael: (nerdy voice) "On page four, I have…"

[The clip of Jesse's first scream from the movie is played. Michael wants to discuss some "sweat and some screams".]

Michael: (Jesse's scream) just goes on forever

Katya: (as Jesse's little sister) "Mommy, why is he gay?"

Mark: I think that child protective services should be called in to any situation where a child wakes up on the daily screaming like that. And the mom is like, "I dunno honey."

Michael: (as the mom): "Just cooking eggs here. I can't stop."

Mark: (as the mom) "I'm sure it's just your average garden variety dream."

Michael: I would think, I would hope as a parent, if my child screams for fourteen straight seconds, I might run up the stairs and check them out

Katya: Yeah, they're pretty blasė about the whole thing

Nay: Tired of that shit. I'm like, "I have compassion fatigue. I don't give a fuck anymore."

Katya: Drama queen!

Nay: Yeah. Like, "He wake up like that every morning. And I don't give a shit."

Michael: (as the mom) "All right Jesse, we get it. You need our attention."

Nay: (as the mom) "Another bad dream? Mmmm."

Katya: (as the mom) "When it changes from sweat to blood, call us."

Mark: Okay, but in that breakfast room--

Nay: (mocking) "Breakfast room"

Mark: In the room of food! (beat) The kitchen. Did anyone notice by the phone there's a little chalkboard and every time they cut to that kitchen scene there's a different message on it?

Michael: Oh no, really?

Brennan: It's like Joey and Chandler's apartment in Friends

Mark: The first one in the morning is, "Call Rhonda". And I'm like, "Who's Rhonda?" And then later, it's, "Zack called." And I'm like, "Who's Zack? Who are these people? What movie are they in? And can I watch it? Instead of this one"

Katya: Sam, you said there was a penis, right?

Sam: Yeah, you skipped over my favorite part, which is where (Jesse) flips up his boner.

Michael: Oh yeah, I was going to bring that up

Sam: I've never seen someone just grab their--

Michael: He literally, like; that was in a section I want to bring up about the gay imagery of the movie because...

Katya: It's a little heavy-handed

Michael: (Jesse) literally flips his boner down. Like, adjusts it and then they cut, his hands in his pants and he almost falls over and then they immediately cut to two egg yolks that just look like a set of testicles. Which, I think, how did this director not know he was making a gay movie? 'Cause the director claims he had no idea.

Katya: Oh. Okay.

Michael: Yeah. That he didn't know there was a lot of gay subtext going on. It's not even subtext

Katya: It is hard to tell. Hard to tell

Mark: Very hard

Katya: (to Sam) You said there was a penis on the wall

Sam: Yes there is, guys. If you look next to the chalkboard is, there is like a cock-shaped Jell-O mold.

Michael: Oh!

Sam: Yeah, it's like a dick and balls.

Michael: And it says, "Happy birthday Jesse" over it?

Katya: It says, "Gay gay gay" on it

Michael: "Suck this, son."

Michael: But, there's an interesting aspect to this scene, too. It's really subtle, and Mark, I think you had mentioned it pre-show that you had noticed it, but the look of fucking contempt on the mom's face when (Jesse's) screaming. Like, right Nay? She's like, "I hate my gay son."

Mark: She's like, "Ugh. There's mommy's little faggot."

Katya: "Soaking wet again."

Mark: "Rise and shine."

Michael: Right? Like it's clear that the parents are like, "Our gay son is screaming again." Like they hate that he's waking up screaming

Mark: Like he woke up going, (fey voice) "Giiiirrrrrllll! Like, sorry. Hi!"

Michael: Like he's having another night terror, 'coz it's clear the way they react that this is normal ever since they moved into this home. The supposed Nancy house, because it's clearly not the same house

Mark: Okay, I cannot wait to talk about this part. Because the fact that like, he's in his room and unpacking and Lisa walks in and she's like, "Hey, what's this?" And there's a diary in the closet. And I'm just like, first of all, who-- I wanna meet the realtor who was like, (fey voice) "I'm just gonna leave this here for the drama." (normal voice) It was like, (fey voice) "Oh, that crazy girl whose mom died in the middle of the house? You know what? I'm sure the new owners probably want this."

Michael: Well, like, Jesse didn't notice it, his mom didn't notice it, his dad didn't notice it

Mark: Also any movie with a diary in it is just inherently gay

Nay: Absolutely

Mark: Right?

Katya: That's a really good point

Nay: You know, I'm gonna have to check the closets when I move into this new place on Saturday

Mark: Seriously

Nay: Yeah. 'Cause now I'm a little worried

Mark: Isn't that how Annabelle turned up in one of these movies?

Nay: Oh yeah

Mark: Someone was like, "Here we are in our new home. Oh! Look at this monster doll."

Nay: "Someone left this weird-ass doll."

Michael: Annabelle started, well, in the first Conjuring, it was the opening scene.

Mark: Right. She was a cameo

Michael: And I think in the first Annabelle movie they find her in a toy store, buy her? He buys her for his pregnant wife? Because what pregnant woman doesn't want a three-foot tall demonic doll?

Mark: Divorce. Sorry, divorce.

Nay: Okay? Yeah.

Mark: Back to this bad movie

Michael: Back to flippin' boners, all right? I want to talk about the gay imagery in the film. I have no question for you guys in regards to that. I just think it is; Grady's body is also constantly sweaty

Katya: (quietly) Thank you

Michael: (Grady's) green shorts? Also gay. I also wanna flip them down, do some things.

Sam: Michael, I saw your deleted scene about his abs, so

Michael: Yeah. Yeah

Nay: (laughs) Brennan's jaw on the floor

Michael: You know, as Sam said, why does (Grady) have a pleather comforter and where can he get one?

Nay: Oh my God, I want one so bad

Katya: I never noticed that, that is...

Sam: I was obsessed

Mark: Well, just the whole look of his room. I was like, does (Grady) sleep in an Ikea? Because it literally looks like one of those, that I remember walking through going, "I want that room." The red piping bed...

Michael: I mean, the imagery is, the coach wearing a leather harness. Like, the shower, the locker room in, it's like a TitanMen locker room. Like at this high school

Mark: (fey voice) What's TitanMen?

Katya: Yeah

Michael: It's really really good home videos

Mark: (fey voice) My mom has NetNanny on the platform

Katya: Wait, did anybody shower in high school? Because I certainly never did

Michael: I never did after gym class 'coz you didn't have time

Sam: I did

Katya: You did?

Michael: I did after practice

Katya: Really, fully nude, everything?

Sam: Oh yeah, dicks out

Katya: What kind of practice, like a sport?

Sam: Uh yeah, I was a swimmer

Michael: After a play rehearsal?

Nay: (talking while laughing) Get back in the shower after the-- (fey voice) "Drama club!"

Mark: After Biology, we would, we would

Katya: Just with the teachers!

Nay: I'm like, no, we didn't have showers

Sam: But we also did at my gym class

Katya: Really?

Sam: That's right, yeah

Michael: I never showered after gym 'cause we didn't have time, but I showered after practice in the sports I played in high school and I showered after games

Katya: Did you have to bring your own towel?

Michael: You had to bring everything

Katya: (softly) Fuck

Nay: We didn't have a gym, or showers

Katya: Yeah, we didn't have showers

Michael: You went to Footloose High School

Nay: Yeah, exactly. I went to Jesus Camp

Katya: Yikes

Michael: I remember being really nervous to shower

Nay: Yeah

Katya: Well yeah

Michael: As a queer teenager, not like, fully knowing I was queer but there was something there and being scared to be naked in front of other boys and I didn't know why, and it was like, traumatizing. Like super traumatizing. And then there was the aggro boys, like literally walking around like dick flopping, like trying to make it flop, sliding in the shower, like literally playing with each other and like...

Katya: Keep going

Michael: Yeah

Sam: Hang on, let me flip this up

Mark: (therapist voice) "You know what, let's talk about this."

Katya: You know that "Dick in a Box" thing from Saturday Night Live?

Nay: Yeah

Katya: That happened in my high school, middle school

Michael: Whoa

Katya: Seventh grade, this boy, um, it was a paper bag like his lunch and he just like, (swaggery male voice) "You want a pretzel, buddy? I got pretzels in my bag."

Michael: To you?

Katya: Not to me, I wish. And yeah, you'd yank on his wiener

Brennan: Think of the paper cuts

Mark: And that boy is now that school's principal

Michael: He's a Supreme Court Justice

Katya: I have a question, though. So (the coach) meets them at the bar and then brings them back to the school?

Mark: Can we talk about this bar? Don's Place? (deep voice) Don's Place. (normal voice) First of all, where is it? It's like under a highway underpass

Michael: It's in a suburb

Katya: Is this supposed to be in Illinois? Why do I think that?

Michael: I think it's still...

Brennan: It's Ohio

Michael: It's before they announced the movies took place in Ohio

Katya: Ohio. Oh, Springwood, Ohio. Springwood, Illinois

Michael: Because the first movie clearly takes place--

Mark: Or Indiana. On the bus it says, "Springwood IND"?

Michael: Or it might mean like "INC" meaning incorporated as far as the school district?

Mark: Okay, I don't know. The first movie is Ohio, supposedly

Michael: The whole series is supposed to take place in Ohio, but the license plates in the first two films say, "California"

Katya: (whispering) Our little secret

Mark: I just, I love that bar because it's like it's mid-eighties straight people's idea of like an edgy straight bar, er gay bar

Katya: Yes That's exactly...

Mark: There's a couple of rough-looking guys...

Michael: Sam is like sitting on the edge of his seat wanting to join in

Mark: "I'm a woman with colored hair," and whatever...

Michael: "Queer!"

Mark: Yeah, exactly. I was just like, okay, I'm not really sure what Don, who owns the bar is into, what his thing is...

Michael: Played by what's-his-face

Mark: I have questions and the music. I was like, what is this music? Anyway, it's the Star Wars cantina...

Michael: Of our time

Mark: Of slasher movies. I don't know

Katya: (Jesse) fits right in with his soaked pajamas or whatever he's wearing

Mark: Which is a look, honey!

Sam: And speaking of nightmares, he's like every straight person's nightmare where it's like, he's here to convert your kids! Like the child. Child, I mean he's a teen. He shows up to this bar, the coach takes him home. Home, to school. The only quote "out" gay person in this movie is a sexual predator

Mark: Coach Schneider, yep

Michael: Right

Katya: Yeah

Mark: With a horrible farmer's tan. Horrible!

Michael: Horrible farmer's tan

Katya: And that vest was awful!

Mark: It's so unflattering, it's so unflattering. At least...

Katya: It looked like a woman's vest or something.

Michael: It's just totally burnt

Katya: It's not even a harness. It looks like something from the Salvation Army

Mark: It's like fetish wear from Chico's. No, it's not, no.

Michael: Yeah, it was like a True Value vest

Sam: The track was fabric. It wasn't even all the way through

Mark: Also, on top of it, this Coach Schneider, who just, I don't know why, but this time watching it I was like, "Ugh. You just know he smells like lunch meat. Like he's just so (inaudible) bologna."

Katya: Oh yes, like bologna and Spam.

Mark: Like a Lunchable after you've peeled the cellophane off. That first whiff. But he's such a...

Michael: The ham one, too

Nay: I'm just starving now

Michael: I know. I could go for two Lunchables

Mark: But (Coach Schneider is) so a straight person's idea of someone in the BDSM fetish community. Every leatherman or anyone involved in BDSM I've ever met is warm, is intuitive, is kind, is probably emotionally way healthier than your average bear and like Coach Schneider clearly, like there's no such thing as a safeword with Coach Schneider and I'm just like, sorry this is total bullshit

Michael: And when his leather pants get ripped off he should have had on a leather jockstrap or something

Katya: Thank you

Michael: Right?

Katya: Buttplug in there. Something

Michael: Something. Something to go along with the outward outfit

Katya: Yeah, the production designer really dropped the ball on that little detail

Mark: Speaking of balls, we're all forgetting that it's an entire scene of balls flying at his face

Katya: Oh, sports! Sports are gonna get ya!

Sam: You want the extended cut where it just teeters back and forth? I want one where we just keep seeing (Coach Schneider) unfazed by the balls flying at his face

Michael: Yeah. He's literally...

Sam: They keep cutting back to him, no response from him

Michael: Sitting there, chewing gum, like, "This seems normal."

Mark: He's like (as Coach Schneider) "Again?"

Katya: It would be funny if it went on and on, and like a FedEx delivery truck of more balls showed up with a driver. It was so ridiculous

Michael: "Freddy I have your ball shipment."

Michael: Nay, what do you think of the Coach?

Nay: Ooof. I, you know, it's just so offensive when you see how straight people depict our community and why they thought that was the most poppin' ass leatherman coach they could have made. I was like, "Are you serious right now? The space between you and me is so large. And you, you will never get this and you should have just paid a gay person to make it look good." And then there would have been a leather jockstrap on under those pants

Michael: Yeah. A harness

Nay: The dildo. I'm sorry, you said buttplug

Mark: Because we love Cruising. We're not gonna pretend that like, "Okay, all right, you wanna do a scary fetish, a scary BDSM guy, okay fine. But like, do it right." I dunno

Sam: But what is the plausibility that the people making the scene didn't know it was gay? I know that's the conversation that comes up, but it's like did they really not know?

Michael: Well the director claims or claimed, I don't know if the person is still alive. But he always says that he had no idea. And the writer for the longest time always said he didn't do it intentionally, and then I think around the time the Elm Street Legacy film came out, he finally acknowledged it, like yeah, it was, subtext was written into the script but as they were filming it, Mark Patton's performance, according to the writer, brought it out further...

Mark: (fey voice) What do you mean?

Katya: (fey voice) What are you trying to insinuate?

Michael: But… huh? Like, I don't know

Sam: I would love to talk about that. Mark Patton's performance and that whole debate, because that grosses me out

Michael: I mean, I have quotes from Mark about the writer saying that and Mark is not a happy person about that kind of stuff, and rightfully so. 'Cause for the longest time, the writer would actually "blame (Mark)" for the film being found as like a queer film. He was upset with him and his performance

Mark: I love the idea that this movie is somehow unsuccessful because only of Mark Patton as the lead

Sam: "Sorry you didn't pass for straight enough."

Michael: And you know what? It has a legacy today because of him, like so Mister Writer Man? You should be really thankful that people are still talking about your movie thirty-three years later

Mark: Suck it, Chaskin

Sam: I think there is some validity to (Mark's) character being the reason why people think it's gay. And this is why: He is the closest thing we have to a Final Girl. We have Final Guys, like we have Halloween H20 where we have Josh Hartnett

Michael: Right. Or Devon Sawa in Final Destination

Sam: Right. But they're not sexualized in the way we sexualize our Final Girls. We see so much dick through white boxers, er, white briefs in this movie. We see him flip up his boner. We see him scream and get emotional. We see him cry. Twice. Cry like actual tears.

Mark: Shirt open, face soaking wet

Sam: We see our Final Girls cry all the time, right? But we don't see our Final Guys cry. What we have in this movie is a feminized, which I hate, but I think people feminize his character and it's actually misogyny is the reason why we look at that and reject him

Katya: But they flip the script right off the bat, they show his butt, and the girl's like, (as Lisa's friend), "Nice ass."

Michael: Well, that's the thing, too. I was gonna bring that up and we actually have that clip

Mark: Everyone's so horny

Katya: She is just, ooof

Mark: Mary?

(The "Nice ass" clip is played for everyone.)

Mark: Actually early on, when they're on the baseball field, which is also, gym class is just weird at this school--

Michael: Because there's seven of them going on one field?

Mark: Well first of all, yeah, exactly. The boys are all on the baseball diamond...

Michael: And the girls are cooking?

Mark: No, the girls are doing archery

Katya: Archery?

Mark: Which, there's straight up archery happening in the course?

Michael: The boys were playing softball which is quote-unquote like the female version of baseball, right? And the girls are actually doing the more aggressive sport, I guess.

Mark: I just love that Lisa is introduced basically with a friend and her friend is like, "So you gettin' any yet, Lise?"

Michael: I know!

Mark: Lisa's like, "Just calm down Jenny, like whatever." (sleazy voice as Lisa's friend) "You suckin' on any big ones yet?"

Michael: (sleazy voice as Lisa's friend) "You gettin' laid by that yet?" (normal voice) Which is also super confusing because it's like, do they know Jesse? How long has Jesse been here, did he move yesterday? Then Grady's like his best friend a week later. He asks him at one point, "Do you live around here?" It's like, dude, you go to the local high school. Everyone lives around here.

Sam: The way that Grady flirts with him on that baseball diamond? I loved. His little butt

Mark: When they're doing the push-ups?

Sam: No, right before. (Grady) like distracts (Jesse) with a little wiggle and then (Jesse) gets hit in the face with a baseball. And by the way, Jesse's outfield so we know he's gay. I was outfield. That's where in Little League you put the kids in who don't want to play, right?

Mark and Nay: It's true

Michael: Sam, you brought up the, and Katya I think you said the same thing too, there is a big flip of the gender norms in this film, and let's discuss that a little bit. Is it positive, is it negative, is it a little bit of both? What say you, Nay?

Nay: It's definitely a little bit of both. It's definitely a little bit of both, 'cause the thing that always blows my mind; who just a few minutes ago was talking about them feminizing?

Michael: Sam

Nay: Sam. It's like gay is as gay does, so of course if a gay man does this, then that's what gay men do, and if they do the complete opposite that's also what gay men do, and I feel like, it's like always interesting to watch how people think what it means to flip that. And it just always comes back to the point that people are just so fucking boring. Like I feel that's, it always goes down to that. How boring and basic and unimaginative fucking straight people are, honestly. Fucking straight cis people

Sam: Here here

Katya: And that is Queerwolf

Nay: You know what I mean? It's just insulting

Michael: I'm with you, one hundred percent

Nay: And I'm just so glad I made the team, so I'm on team. And I'm like, "Oh my God, what if I was that undimensional and fucking boring."

Michael: And that's your imagination, that's your creativity?

Nay: Yeah

Michael: (disgusted straight guy voice) "Just make him a gay guy!" (normal voice) You know what I mean? Like you said, there's gay men of all different--

Nay: Of all different

Michael: Origins and kinds and it's just, that's the best you could do?

Mark: This comes down to the misnomer, I think, that Nightmare on Elm Street 2 is a "gay movie".

Michael: One hundred percent

Mark: At the end of the day, watching it, I hadn't seen it in a while, watching it again last night, I was like, "No. Nightmare on Elm Street 2 is a horror movie for fragile young small town girls who everyone at theater camp told them they look a little like Meryl Streep and also, they cannot stop barking up the wrong tree and their name is Lisa." Like, it is entirely; it's almost Jesse stops being the subject of his own movie halfway through and it becomes about, "Can the power of this thirsty young girl's love save this gay boy from, right..."

Michael: "Can heterosexuality save this gay boy from his ultimate demise"

Mark: I mean, look. If we're talking histrionics, okay, I'm not wild about Mark Patton's performance, I think it's histrionic to the point of insanity, but I think everybody is histrionic in this movie. I mean, what's-her-name, Lisa, delivers a performance straight out of Stagedoor Manor as far as I'm concerned. Like, by the time Freddy is threatening her, I'm just like, "You guys. Calm the fuck down. This is so over-the-top." All of them in this movie, it's crazy

Katya: Yeah, Lisa's a total kook too, because pretty early on she's like, "Oh, it must be your newfound psychic abilities. I wonder if we can connect to the energy?"

Mark: Yeah. She's crazy

Katya: Because she's like, "We're a reiki healer now."

Michael: Yeah, and where did you find that first dot that you're connecting to this dot, like, what the fuck did you just come up with that? He just found a diary!

Katya: She's crazy!

Mark: He basically keeps telling her, she's like, (as Lisa) "Hi Jesse, how are you?" (normal voice) He's like, "I'm gay." And she's like, (as Lisa) "Okay, I'll see you later!"

Michael: (as Lisa) "You can fight it! We'll talk after class."

Mark: Yeah, no. The next scene she's like, "You wanna hang out?" And he's like, "I killed Coach Schneider." And she's like, (as Lisa) "Hey, that's great. Let's go to that abandoned child rape steel mill together..."

Katya: Immediately after

Mark: (as Lisa), "And solve the mystery of your homosexuality."

Nay: She's hongry

Mark: Her character is--

Michael: He runs away from her to go be in Grady's bedroom later that night. She's like, (as Lisa) "It's gonna be fine."

Mark: Has anyone seen the movie Pretty Poison with Tuesday Weld and Anthony Perkins?

Michael and Katya: No

Mark: Oh my God, it's fabulous. It's so good, you guys have to see it.

Katya: Tuesday Weld

Mark: Okay, Tuesday Weld in this movie, (Lisa) reminded me of Tuesday Weld. And I'll explain why: Tuesday Weld plays a cheerleader in a small town in the late sixties and she's like really gorgeous and bored and Anthony Perkins is a recently released, for lack of a better term mental patient, who is fabulous and cannot stop inventing stories. He comes to this town and he spots her and makes her his mark. He's like, "I'm a spy and I need you to help me," 'cause he's gonna seduce her. And she's so bored in this town she goes along with it. But the problem is, as it goes on, he realizes that she's more dangerous and quote-unquote crazier than he ever was, and so Lisa reminds me of that character, but in a shitty way. That she just buys into whatever's going on. If you had a boy next door showing up at your house, covered in blood...

Michael: "A man's taking over my body and I'm killing people."

Mark: Would you be like, (as Lisa) "Come sit down on the couch, let's talk about it." (normal voice) I was just like (sotto voce) this ishi is nuts. This is not right.

Nay: Mm-mmm

Sam: Yeah

Michael: She's like, girl, there's other boys in that school

Katya: I was gonna say, ain't one dick that good.

Sam: Grady's right there!

Michael: Yeah

Sam: Grady's perfect

Michael: He is. But at the end of the day, he threw his grandma down the stairs and got grounded for it

Mark: Okay. Is that a joke?

Katya: I thought it was a joke!

Mark: They literally don't treat it like a joke

Michael: And then he's grounded. He's literally home and in bed

Sam: He was just flirting with his boyfriend Jesse, guys

Mark: (fey voice) Anyway whatever I don't care I love Grady

Sam: He obviously didn't want to sleep with that girl. He's all about Jesse. And then Jesse's like, "Shut up." And he's like, "Ahhhh!" And he leaves. I mean this is the gayest, Jesse/Grady, I'm shipping it

Michael: I think that Grady doesn't define as straight, doesn't define as gay, Grady is poly, Grady is fluid. He doesn't care who it is as long as he has a connection with that person, and in that moment, it was Jesse. He was comfortable with himself, right? Okay. So.

Katya: Fifty Shades of Grady

Michael, Mark and Sam: (sigh with desire)

Michael: Oh, girl

Michael: So Grady, you know, let's talk about Grady a little bit, okay?

Mark: (softly) Please

Michael: Because he is the only person in this film that doesn't want anything from Jesse other than a friendship. He's the only person that reaches out to Jesse from a true place, where Lisa's like a desperate like, "You're not gay, I swear!" type of person. His parents really ignore the shit out of Jesse. His little sister's unnecessary

Katya: Ugh. I wish he would have killed her

Nay: I agree

Michael: I did love her little finger things she had though

Nay: Okay, same. Poppin'

Michael: Right? I was just like, "Girl, just go up to your room and play with those the rest of the movie. You're done here."

Nay: What was that racist box of cereal?

Mark, Michael, Katya and Sam: Fu Man-Chews

Nay: I can't!

Mark: When she waves her fingers at him, she's like, "I see you, queen! How'd you sleep, bitch?"

Michael: So Grady I feel like is a very centered person in this movie and it's like really the one, accepting Jesse for who he is. And I think we have a clip of him talking to Jesse kind of during the middle of all this that kind of, to me, kind of sums up his character.

(Brennan plays the clip where they're having lunch in the cafeteria and Grady asks Jesse, with a mouthful of food, if he wants to go see a movie or get some food and take his mind off of things. Lisa tries to get Jesse to eat something and offers to help him. Grady says that she's wasting her time since Jesse's a "basket case".)

Sam: Lovers' quarrel

Michael: Yeah, and at the end (Grady's) kind of like, "Love you!"

Mark: Grady knows he can chew the food, right?

Michael: Grady literally has like four milks in front of him, like four sandwiches, he's shoving them in one at a time. I kind of love it 'coz like, I remember having so much food as a high school kid

Nay: He's like, "I don't swallow. (chomping noises) Just keeping it in there, okay?"

Michael: Just store it

Katya: Lisa in that scene is acting like they've been married for twenty years and they can figure this out if they put...

Michael: Girl! Give him some fucking space! He doesn't want to talk to you!

Nay: I think she's probably gay too

Michael: Ooooh! I never thought of that

Nay: I feel like I was in love with a gay boy...

Mark: Plot. Twist.

Nay: Well, now I know I was in love with a gay boy way back when and I feel like a lot of the men I've been attracted to have been gay men, you know, which is just the gayest thing I could possibly do, you know?

Mark: You know, when they finally hook up in the cabana--

Michael: It's so uncomfortable and awkward

Mark: So uncomfortable because he spends a lot of, like a lot of time in her cleavage and they keep cutting to an overhead shot of Lisa kind of looking like, (as Lisa) "What's happening? What's he doing?"

Michael: She's like counting sheep

Mark: And you know what? I think Nay, you're actually on to something

Michael: I never thought of that

Nay: She's like, "The energy!" She definitely a dyke. "I'm a reiki healer." Dyke.

Michael: He's spending a lot of time in her cleavage but never actually touching her cleavage

Mark:  He moves her boobs out of the way. It's like, (fey voice) "Ugh! Let's get rid of these!"

Sam: Like the Red Sea

Michael: (fey voice) "Let's put a highway here I can kind of focus on."

Katya: "Let's explore your sternum."

Nay: Yeah, exactly

Sam: "It'll be fine."

Michael: I'm like wait, is he gonna go down on her?

Nay: No

Michael: Or just, "I wanna play with your bellybutton"?

Mark: No

Nay: He's like, "I'm wasting time right now. I'm, I dunno. I'm prayin' for a miracle."

Michael: He's like praying for Freddy at that moment

Nay: Yeah. Between the titties and nowhere else

Michael: So then he runs to Grady

Katya: But that nasty tongue

Mark: Oh, I know

Katya: That nasty tongue comes out. I wish he would have puked on her. A little Exorcist. Like, that would have been more impactful

Michael: If she saw that tongue she probably would have been like, "Okay, get back down there."

Mark: She would have been like, "All this hard work has been worth it!"

Sam: There are these moments that this movie has, though, that I end up identifying with as a queer person so hard. Like when he's making out with her and the tongue comes out. The part of me that was, that has made out with a girl and is like, "God, I don't want her to notice I'm not hard right now," or whatever, right? These moments, it's like, "Is she gonna know?" And then he tries to hide it, like the tongue comes out and he has to like, "I gotta go." There are these things that, and the film does that with the parents earlier on and when they're talking about trying to change him, and I just think that, I dunno, that's why as a gay person I identify with him, like, "Oh, this is a gay film." But at the end of the day, I agree with you, Mark. It's not, but at the same time, those moments I identify with

Michael: Well Sam, you had mentioned something to me in an email and I wanted to read it… so, talking about Jesse and Lisa, Sam had emailed me and said, I asked him if he wanted me to pull any clips… but Sam you had mentioned the whole sequence when Lisa tells Jesse to fight it and "You created him, you can destroy him," are all vaguely reminiscent of things you heard from churchy friends when you were coming to terms with your own sexuality. "What's interesting to me," and this is Sam, "is that while gays celebrate this film, it doesn't celebrate us back." I actually read that and was sitting at my desk, alone, snapping my fingers and like, "Okay, that's the movie."

Sam: Yeah

Michael: So we're done here. But I think that is the smartest take I've heard on this film, ever, to be perfectly honest with you.

Mark: Here, here

Michael: And I'm not saying that because you're my friend and I love you, I think it's a very, very amazing take. Any hesitation I had about discussing this film was completely erased when I read that, because I was like, "That is a fresh fuckin' take, and that is a real fuckin' take and that is a real honest take." I think too many people wanna embrace stuff just because it's quote-unquote "gay" and never want to look at like, "Okay, you can, but let's look at it. Let's actually discuss it honestly! Let's, thirty-three years later, let's maybe talk about the problems with the movie, because that's the only way we can keep moving forward." So thanks

Sam: Yeah, no problem

Michael: Anyone else have anything else to say on Sam's wonderful words, because I think it's beautiful

Katya: I mean, I think it's primarily just an exploding bird movie

Nay: That fucking bird

Mark: I thought it was a movie about how riding the school bus is just not...

Katya: Cool

Mark: Safe. Period. Beginning, ending

Michael: I dunno, I kind of liked riding the bus because it was always a good boner. You'd always get the bus boner from bouncing up and down

[The other guys sigh]

Katya: That's true

Nay: What is the bus boner?!?!

Sam: That's a real thing

Mark: Excuse me?

Nay: What is a bus boner??

Michael: You never got bus boners?

Nay: From bouncing?

Michael: When they were bouncing down that street, I was like, "I wanna ride that bus." I'd get the biggest "B".

Nay: [gasps] Michael!

Sam: My God

Nay: Wow

Michael: Is anyone else with me? Bus boners?

Katya: I think every single day I had one, yeah

Michael: Yeah

Nay: Oh my God, go get a bus right fucking now! I wanna...

Mark: I never had a bus boner

Michael: Don't need a city one, just get a school bus. (to Mark) You've never had a bus boner?

Mark: No!

Brennan: I don't know what you're talking about, but I have...

Michael: Bumpy bus

Brennan: I did see junior high kids humping a bus seat once

Michael: He had a bus boner

Brennan: It might have been you, actually

Michael: I hope not, because I'm like thirty years older than you

Sam: Could I add one thing to that? I mean, it's not bus boner related.

Michael: We can get away from the boner of the bus

Nay: She'll be there

Sam: Just flip it up. If we accept this movie as a gay film, right, or we accept this is a metaphor, and Freddy is the metaphor for queerness, and he's the villain and he's vanquished by a kiss, then we're accepting that queerness is the villain. We're accepting--

Michael: And so it can only be erased by heterosexuality

Nay: Damn

Sam: Right. And so it's like even those moments that I identify so hard with and I'm like, "Yes, this is me," or, "Oh, I know that teenage moment," then at the end, it is a bad thing. And that's what's hard about a lot of the films you guys talk about, you know?

Michael: Agreed

Sam: And when I listen, I want to scream at, right back with you, because it's like, I can love and embrace a horror film that has queer elements, but so often the queer elements are tied to the villain and then it's like, "Well, what am I saying? How do I divorce myself from that moment and enjoy the ride?" And so for me, I do love this movie

Michael: Of course

Sam: But I also know, that's not okay and that's why in the future, like we have to have these conversations, so we don't fuck it up again

Mark: It's true. We really have. Freddy really is coded as queerness in this movie. To the point where even Lisa's horrible party, he crashes it kind of like, Emma Roberts in Scream Queens, he's like, "Surprise, bitch."

Michael: I love Emma Roberts.

Michael: We haven't even discussed the fact that there's so much queerness we've discussed, we haven't even discussed the fact that in the second film in the series, they completely break their own rules

Mark: Yeah

Michael: And Freddy's in the real world, pretty much the entire movie

Sam: Mmm-hmm

Katya: Oh, yeah!

Michael: Thank you, Katya

Katya: And he has magical, like he can sort of appear and disappear, turn into fire--

Michael: Yeah, be in a wiener

Mark: (as Freddy) "I entered this world through this gay boy!"

Michael: And then he rips apart Jesse's body...

Mark: Who's fine?

Michael: But then like five minutes later he's standing up and (crying, as Jesse), "I did this!"

Mark: I don't know if it was the film making was just inept and we're supposed to; that the movie's trying to sell this idea that because Jesse is not actually disemboweled by Freddy coming through him, but rather it's a possession. I don't know if they're breaking the rules by stating, "It's a possession movie!" And it seems like Freddy's standing in front of everybody but it is...

Michael: It's really Jesse

Mark: Yeah, you know. That said, it's still breaking its rules. I think it thought it was sort of, you know, trying to expand Freddy's powers or whatever

Michael: Yeah, I mean it was trying something different, yeah

Mark: But it just doesn't work

Michael: It doesn't

Sam: 'Cause weren't you waiting for that gay bar scene to be a dream? They had lighting and everything. Red and green and everything and then they're in a gym, the gym is lit red and you're like, "Oh, this is a weird dream."

Mark: You're like, "No, he's just gonna fuck his coach."

Nay: Yes!

Michael: Yeah. Were there really any dreams in the movie? 'Cause he does wake up screaming several times, but now I'm trying to think...

Sam: Six times

Michael: Are they dreams or are they blackouts? Like where Freddy's possessed him and he comes to in bed, covered in a gallon of water that he created himself and then proceeds to walk down the hallway with his shirt open

Mark: And then he wakes up going, "Yaaaaas!!! Slay! Slay!"

Michael: And his mom is downstairs making bacon, rolling her eyes

Mark: Okay, when he comes downstairs around the time he starts stopping sleeping and his mom looks at him and she fully goes, "Well, you're looking better." And he looks at her, Mark Patton serves her a look that's just like, "Biiitch." Like he just looks at her like, "Excuse me?" It's so not even, it's fabulous

 

Nay: There's something between those two

Mark: He is fantastic

Nay: I don't know what it is, there's something between them. Something happened

Michael: The mom?

Nay: Yeah

Mark: There's a lot of daddy shit in this movie. Like Freddy is like, (as Freddy) "Daddy can't help you now! I need you, Jesse."

Katya: "I need you…"?

Mark: His dad, his dad says to him, he said, "What are you taking and who's giving it to you?"

Michael: Yeah! Dick. All of them

Mark: Yeah, I know. I was like, "Wow!" I was like, "Goodness!"

Michael: Well it's so interesting that in a lot of Eighties, it made me chuckle a little bit because looking back in a lot of eighties movies the go-to for parents in these movies was drugs because we were in such a drug fear world because of the Reagans. So every teenager was always doing drugs in these movies, it was always, well no, "I'm being stalked by a serial killer. He's haunting me through my dreams."

Katya: "In my dreams."

Mark: And also Lisa

Nay: Also Lisa. True. True

Michael: (as Jesse) "Like three people around me have died, it's not drugs, it's death."

Michael: Something else I noticed this time while watching it and I don't know if it means anything or if you guys have anything to say is all the victims in this film are men. Which is interesting

Mark: Well, except for Kerry at the very end, on the bus

Michael: Right. And to me, it's like, kind of like the first movie, it didn't happen

Mark: Just like the beginning

Katya: Oh yeah. That was really sad for me

Michael: Hand through the chest?

Katya: Yes, because she was like the best one in the whole movie

Mark: She's really sex positive

Katya: Yeah, she was like...

Michael: She really was

Mark: She's like, (as Kerry) "You gettin' any cock, Barbara?"

Katya: Yeah, getting to work. She's very encouraging, she's very open-minded. She wasn't very stylish

Mark: That's true

Katya: She had like a wet-look shag at one point

Michael: Her and Grady had the same haircut, which I kind of love

Mark: She had the Weird Al, kind of

Katya: She had a wet jheri curl at one point

Nay: Yeah

Katya: She's awesome. So good

Michael: I also think she was good because she had the least amount of screentime

Michael: Are we missing any big discussion of this movie?

Katya: Wait, I have something to say

Michael: Please!

Katya: It was like, I, at the end, I hated that Freddy was, um, like a sad old man. When he was, you know; what the fuck was the kiss?

Michael: In the boiler room?

Mark: When he's like, (as Freddy) "I was defeated by love!"

Katya: I was like, "Love, really?" Okay, that is absolute trash and garbage

Michael: There's no love there!

Katya: It's horrible!

Mark: She makes out with him

Michael: Jesse doesn't love her!

Katya: No, I know

Michael: Nay is just shaking her head

Katya: I saw like literally, like, a crazy girl like trying to pull a gay man, like pull one of his legs, and like a creepy pedophile serial killer trying to pull the other one and then...

Michael: Yes! "You belong to us!" There's no in-between, there's no like, quote-unquote, I can't for lack of a better term off the top of my head, there's no "normal space" for him. It's either heterosexuality or (as Freddy) "You're a pedophile!"

Katya: And then your last-ditch effort for some kind of like, evolved normalcy just gets the fucking knives through her chest

Mark: Yeah. Nightmare on Elm Street 2 is bisexual erasure

[gasps from Michael, Sam and Katya]

Mark: Fuck you, Nightmare on Elm Street 2

Michael: Yeah!

Mark: I dunno. Sam, I'm with you. I love it in the way that I imagine like, certain women can love a movie like Showgirls, kind of? Like, it's like doing everything

Nay: I love that movie

Mark: Exactly, right? It's literally getting everything wrong in every way, shape and form and yet that's why you love it. It's like a stupid Roomba that just keeps hitting the wall over and over and you're just like, "Awww." Like, it's just, y'know.

Michael: There's so much to unpack in this movie, and we didn't even discuss (Jesse) dancing in his bedroom.

Katya: Mmmm

Mark: Oh. That's my love language

Michael: That's when you clean your room, right?

(The clip of Jesse cleaning his room is played)

Michael: He's got like the saddest boxes filled with the saddest stuff

Mark: He literally stands Lisa up and she's like, (as Lisa) "That's weird. I guess I should just go to his house."

Michael: I told you. She looks at him like dead-eyed. (as Lisa) "I told your mom you invited me over."

Mark: (as Lisa) "I'm gonna help you unpack your personal things. Oh, what's this? A diary."

Katya: "Oh look, a diary."

Michael: And doesn't she ask, "Where does this go?" And she's holding his jockstrap?

Katya: Oh yeah, and then there's the...

Michael: And then she sniffs it for four minutes

Katya: Jock itch! It's the jock itch!

Michael: Yes! Yeah!

Katya: And that's when you see the Probe, right?

Michael: Mmm-hmmm. And he's like, (chuckles nervously)

Katya: God, soft touches and subtle (inaudible)

Sam: Mom busts in on him in that room like she does not have a teenage son

Mark: Nope

Michael: Right?

Sam: She was tryin'  to catch him

Michael: Right. And she also was...

Nay: She hates him

Mark: My mom used to do that shit. Oof. Oh my God, I remember like, no room was safe. The bathtub certainly. I remember once, she did catch me. She like literally kicked down the door like Rambo-style. She was like (as his mom) "Fresh towels! Ohh my!" Yeah, yeah. My mom's relentless. Love you mom!

Michael: That moment, though, I laugh because the mom does bust in with Lisa and you know, when she went downstairs to talk to the dad off-screen, she's like, "There's a girl in his room! Hopefully it happens!" You know she's like, "Here's a girl, honey! Do straight sex with her!"

Mark: And his little sister's like, (quietly) "Somebody pay attention to me." They're like, "Quiet, Jenny." "My name's Ashley."

Michael: (as the little sister) "I've been asleep in my room for four days and no one's noticed."

Nay: (as the little sister) "Anyone care that I'm eating racist cereal? Isn't anyone going to stop me?"

Michael: Nope!

Mark: I know. It's neglect. Child neglect.

Katya: Wait, do they ever say the word "gay" g-a-y in this movie?

Sam: They do say "queer"

Michael: They did say "g-h-e-y"

Nay: They did say "queer"

Michael: Grady did call the bar--

Sam: "A queer S&M joint"

Michael: "A queer S&M joint". Which makes me again, go, did the director hear that line being said? There's no, like he did notice any queer aspects of the movie?

Mark: I think that they didn't think that that made the movie gay. I think that in 1985, gay people had been demonized and ridiculed to the point where they just thought it was, "Oh, this is fun."

Michael: "Aren't we cute?"

Mark: "This is edgy."

Michael: Did someone want to mention real quick Mark Patton's performance or something? Because I, you know, people have always like you know; I looked at Wikipedia, which, you know, anybody can edit. But it just, you know, talks about how the movie's homoerotic and there's subtext and stuff, and Mark Patton has always actually said, like, "It's not subtext, it's text."

Katya: I was gonna say

Michael: "It's in your face." And he said it was increasing as the film was being made, the more the rewrites came in, the more the gayer they got. And him and the writer have kind of butted heads as I said, because the writer said that was happening because of Mark's performance and that he couldn't avoid it. So at this point should we just say the writer can fuck off?

Katya: That's crazy! That's like saying he has a lisp so let's put him in a Liberace costume or something

Mark: Yes, because the writer absolutely leaned into a gay panic thing...

Michael: Oh, that's a good way to put it

Mark: That's clear as day. However, Mark Patton also delivers moments and performance that are; there's a moment when he finally arrives in Grady's room and he's like freaking out

Michael: He's laying on top of him

Mark: Well, beyond the laying on top of him, but then he finally backs him into a corner and he's just staring, maintaining eye contact and he's like, (as Jesse) "I need you to sit with me, because I don't know what I'm gonna do." (normal voice) And it's just very, like, the stare is a little bit, okay, that's a choice. I'm sorry, but Mark Patton definitely makes choices that are like brazen, and honestly I think kind of brave, 'cause he's just like, "Fuck it. This is queer as fuck and I'm gonna lean in." And he, so I think that--

Michael: I mean he could've, that could've been a reaction to the writer

Mark: Maybe? I don't know. I'm just saying that, but I also think that him queering up the performances and making choices as a queer actor that certainly are like a Bat-signal for all of us sitting here watching the movie. I don't think, you know, I go, well, "I celebrate that." Like, why not? That's one of the things I love about the movie, is the fact that his performance comes off as unabashedly queer

Michael: Patton actually left acting for a little bit after making this movie because of the emotional damage he felt he suffered while it was going on. Which is super crazy. And looking at some of these quotes I'm reading right now, it's so interesting to see the director or the writer at one point in 2010 said it was all deliberate on his part because homophobia was rampant at the time and like he wanted to almost satirize because the target audience was adolescent boys and he wanted to show them you can tap into the gay angst the same way you can regular, like, I hate to say regular, but the quote-unquote "regular teen angst"

Mark: As Ira would say, "Keep it"

Michael: Right. You're like shoveling more shit in your mouth as you're trying to take out the previous piece of poop you put in your mouth.

Mark: I dunno. Do you guys buy that?

Sam: I don't buy any of it

Michael: I don't buy any of it either

Sam: I don't even think with, in regards to the performance, it's 1985. It's hard to look at it through a lens of today, right? Because he's gotta be terrified that if he is gay or emits gayness in his performance that he's never gonna work again. The screenwriter's thinking probably something along the same lines. Then they get into that war about who's the reason why this is. But at the end of the day, this movie made more than Part 1. It grossed almost ten million dollars more I think than the first one

Michael: It grossed thirty million

Sam: It was a financial success, I'm just saying. The blame that we talk about, about the movie is all about it being gay, which is weird to me

Michael: Right.

Sam: 'Cause it's just like, why is it bad it's gay?

Michael: Like why is there any blame to go around at all?

Sam: Which is very reminiscent of the time in which it was made. So I think they still carry that with them and that's kind of where that comes from. But I do think that going back and saying that all this stuff was a choice or that they really leaned, they might have leaned into it and had some jokes on set but I really don't buy it

Michael: I don't buy the writer's side of it

Mark: Well, the happy ending is that I feel that obviously, in the years since, Mark Patton has sort of reclaimed the movie for himself

Michael: He has. One hundred percent. I love him

Mark: I was lucky enough, I met him. I did a panel with him at Comic-Con when Final Girls came out and it was Michael Varrati's Queer Horror, and we got to sit next to Mark and he's lovely and he was in the midst of making his documentary called Scream Queen!, all about the experience of making this movie and you know, now it's like a badge of honor for him.

Michael: Well he's the face of this film, he's the face of this film more so than Robert Englund I feel like.

Mark: Freddy feels like an afterthought in this movie

Michael: Yeah. One hundred percent. It almost feels like it's a script for a different film and they kind of Freddy-ized it in one way or the other. But yes, Mark one hundred percent is the, I personally think, the reason, his performance and just his carrying of the torch is the reason this film is still discussed so greatly today. And it's one of the most, if not the most discussed film in the franchise.

Katya: Did we ever find out why that bird caught on fire?

Michael: Yeah, what is that?

Katya: What the fuck is that?

Nay: Flaming

Katya: That was a really long bird attack sequence

Nay: Seriously! For real, though

Katya: It was (inaudible). The movie clocks in at what, under ninety minutes?

Sam: Eighty-two minutes

Michael: And the bird part was seven minutes

Mark: There were two birds at first and one of the birds is dead. That's part of the body count, guys.

Nay: Flaming birds. I think they were trying to say something

Michael: What does the bird thing mean? Like Freddy's energy is all over that house and he hates birds?

Katya: Well, I think it was like a gris and it was also something else

Michael: I wish the film had leaned a little bit more into the Nancy connection. 'Cause like...

Katya: I wanted more mushy stairs

Mark: Oh, I know!

Katya: That was the best

Mark: Oatmeal stairs

Katya: It's like, "Oh! I know what that's like!"

Michael: It's weird that they set up that the house is kind of the reason Jesse's being invaded by Freddy but then nothing really ever happens at the house?

Mark: No

Michael: Like, go to a boiler room?

Katya: You get a few with the outside, you get a toaster catches on fire unplugged and then a bird is, light arson

Michael: Then the parents again, like the toaster happens and they're like--

Mark: "It's not even plugged in."

Michael: "It's because we have a gay son."

Katya: Yeah, they're like, "Nope, it's not plugged in. You must be on heroin!" It doesn't make any sense

Mark: Dada masterpiece

Katya: (on The Quiet Room) It's like A Quiet Place but better and with no monsters that are aliens and it's really good.

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